Man going for 50:50 custody

[toobusytothink]

Male friend of mine is going for 50:50 custody of his two sons. He is an incredible dad and genuinely wants this - it isn’t to avoid child maintenance - he genuinely believes the kids would be better off with him and he is and has always been a very hands on dad. His ex is likely to oppose it and has no idea - she thinks he will be asking for EOW and one night a week. Any tips on best way to ensure he gets this?

"But who knows, maybe she will be relieved when he asks for it and once she feels he is pulling his weight maybe she will lay off him a bit."

This implies that he is not doing his 50-50; you only have his word for that he is.

IME, many men state they are doing 50-50 as they perhaps do a drop-off, cook a meal etc but gave little insight into the sheer scale of daily parenting. But they will genuinely believe they are doing it if asked.

Hmm, I'm a bit suspicious of women who plot with men to get other women's time with their own children away from them. Especially when they're only hearing one side of the story as you are OP.

@HmmSureJan

Hmm, I'm a bit suspicious of women who plot with men to get other women's time with their own children away from them. Especially when they're only hearing one side of the story as you are OP.

As am I The OP has ignored my questions about that so far though as she has others

[quote YoBeaches]@Cleverpolly3 I'm referencing a Family Court meaning they have a specific legal jurisdiction, which has less concern about the relations of the parents and is focussed on the needs and interests of the child, with the exception of some DV cases.

Communication between parents really comes down to how easy/pleasant they want make this for everyone and how much they will protect the children from any animosity. In this case it sounds like the mother has a rather unrealistic view of what separating actually means.[/quote]
I’m perfectly aware of the judicial provenance of your comments

I’m not sure what your reply to me is about since you’re essentially writing what I have said; that whether it’s a positive thing or not for children is at the behest of the parents. The complexities, stresses and demands of modern life, work, other relationships, different parenting styles, capabilities, money as well as the reasons for splitting all potentially can wreak havoc on children’s lives in a shared care set up such as 50:50

I am not going to comment on individuals cases I know where it has t worked other than to say the casualties in it are the children. Unless of course too one party was not in agreement for non selfish reasons and they are also being aged by the schedule.

The irony is of course people who push for it so save on child maintenance soon realise that payment to the CMS is a drop in the ocean compared to what a child really costs to care for. And all the hard work

*being damaged

50/50 is a really, really bad option for the kids IME. It's mostly about assuaging the guilt or massaging the ego of one or both of the parents and embracing the model imposed by the family courts in a failed attempt to be equitable and fair (to the parents, not the kids).

My DD, who is 9, really does not like having two homes. Kids want their own rooms, their own stuff, their own routines. They want to feel comfortable. They do not want to be ferried around from pillar to post every 5 minutes because Daddy thinks he's a better parent.

I am speaking from experience as a 75/25 non-resident mother. I am not going for a higher percentage of custody because the kids don't want the messing (even though their father is a performance parent only, and will not do the grunt work which means their hygiene, clothing, phone usage etc. is atrocious with him. Hopefully not your friend's case).

He can still be an important influence on them if he sees them twice a week. My dad was a far greater and more positive influence on me than my mum, and I lived with her full time. What is important is not how much contact a parent has, but the quality and consistency of it. It must be regular, but relaxed and non-stressy. Otherwise the kids get upset too, and your friend will have years of animosity and vicious text messages with the ex, taking precious energy away from parenting and ruining the children's memories.

I say this as a child of divorced parents, I absolutely detested having to "move house" every weekend (and that was without the midweek faffing, which I didn't have).

Can your friend put his ego aside and accept that if the mother is allowed to do her job properly, she will probably be far less anxious and easier to deal with? I find the assumption that she "can't cope" to be patronising, what is it based on? His perceptions, and...? She might be anxious because she has to deal with HIM.

If not, if your friend has serious grounds to state he is the more suitable primary carer, then go for a less stressy option where they live predominantly with him and see her regularly.

To those questioning my motives he genuinely is just a friend - a colleague who I have worked with for years and is a lot younger than me but often turns to me for advise. You’re right - I shouldn’t be slagging her off though as I don’t know her and only hear one side of the story so I apologise for that, but this is an anonymous forum so I don’t feel bad for discussing “her” business as plenty of people come on here talking about others.

What I really wanted when I started this thread was to understand exactly what 50:50 involved and the things he has to think about - interests of kids, whether he really CAN do it, whether he really wants it etc etc so he can really think before he goes in all guns blazing and causes unnecessary arguments and upset. So thank you to everyone who has given advice. I have no agenda and it doesn’t affect me one bit what he does, but it is good to be able to give him a list of things to think about as it is such a huge decision. Thank you

Noone knows how things are really run apart from those 2.
Can I suggest counselling to help them to divorce. My ex and I did this and its the best money we could have spent. It's given us our friendship back and helped us both go into financial mediation in a good mindset with the kids first approach.

There's no way you've put a colleague's family issues on mumsnet!

@Cleverpolly3
Surely the whole point point of MN is you only hear one side of things.
There are endless posts about MILS and SILS and, although you might wonder, you never get to hear the other side of the story.
You make it sound as if someone asking for advice on an issue like this breaks Talk guidelines, which it doesn't.
It sounds controlling to set up your own rules for asking advice from others and accusing an OP of not having the right.
In my experience (teacher) there are far more 50/50 arrangements these days than there used to be.

Alys20
I agree, I have always wondered how the child feels about having 2 homes, having to move from house to house. I do think in some situations it can work, if parents live fairly close to each other and if there’s some leeway both ways for when the child may not want to go to the other parents house. As they get older they are going to have things they want to do with friends or weekend activities, all this is ok if both parents can facilitate this (live close by) but it’s not always possible.

I split with ex when my dc were 9 and 11, we always agreed that the dc and their choices would come first, tbh ex didn’t want to be very involved and was happy for me to have them 6 days a week and him 1 day.

I know several men that have 50/50 contact and another that has 75/25, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. Ideally it’s best to work together as parents for what is best for the child/ren rather than playing games and trying to get out of paying any maintenance (which seems to happen a lot). Mediation is usually something you have to do before going to court now, so sit down and discuss what’s best for the kids, nots what’s best for you, without playing the ‘I’m a better parent’.

[quote Parkperson]@Cleverpolly3
Surely the whole point point of MN is you only hear one side of things.
There are endless posts about MILS and SILS and, although you might wonder, you never get to hear the other side of the story.
You make it sound as if someone asking for advice on an issue like this breaks Talk guidelines, which it doesn't.
It sounds controlling to set up your own rules for asking advice from others and accusing an OP of not having the right.
In my experience (teacher) there are far more 50/50 arrangements these days than there used to be.[/quote]
you sound more interested in controlling and reporting threads than I am. I haven’t reported anything on here.

I stated that I didn’t find it appropriate that a third party in this case the OP sharing quite personal details and information about another couple’s failed relationship and where that would place one or the other in relation to a private family court proceeding potentially. I questioned her involvement and motives. She maintains she isn’t involved but herself has retrospectively said it might have looked like she was “slagging off” her friend’s ex. So even she acknowledges that

This sort of second hand speculation is demonstrably not the same as you, I or anyone else writing about THEIR own MIL, husband etc. That is authentic first hand problems or issues.

In relation to your other point you are stating the obvious. We all know there are more 50: 50 arrangements but there have been one or two posters just on here speak from their own experience as well as their children’s that is is far from ideal for many parties involved. Just because something is more common nowadays it doesn’t mean it’s an improvement and for a lot of children I think this arrangement is selfish and not in the best interests of them growing up.

I think a lot of people would disagree with you @Cleverpolly3. If women are to have the freedom to work and have equal parenting responsibilities with men, there has to be an increasing expectation that in the event of a split, the starting point is 50/50 care. I think that will increasingly be the case in the future if not already.
I applaud your idea however, that if any poster poses a question involving someone else, there is an honesty involving all points of perspective.

@Parkperson

I think a lot of people would disagree with you *@Cleverpolly3*. If women are to have the freedom to work and have equal parenting responsibilities with men, there has to be an increasing expectation that in the event of a split, the starting point is 50/50 care. I think that will increasingly be the case in the future if not already. I applaud your idea however, that if any poster poses a question involving someone else, there is an honesty involving all points of perspective.

I knew you would say that I’m not so sure women working is about being free often it’s more about having to and let’s face it neither parent even in 50:50 care is at home during the working week if the basis for such shared care is there is no dedicated primary carer. More often than not wrap around care and or family support is still needed

People who are bereaved or single parents because the other parent is nowhere to be seen have to manage.

It’s dressed up as something it isn’t because of circumstances and society and pressure on parents but this doesn’t means it is not always right on the children involved.

@Cleverpolly3

I feel really sorry for kids of 50:50 care Literally shuttled between houses and at the mercy of two sets of schedules different bedrooms etc

Not so sure it’s not actually just about mollifying parents and their lives

Speaking from experience (as a child whose parents divorced) I would have hated this. I didn't have a preference about which parent stayed in our house, but I would have found being shuttled between two homes really unsettling. My life was already disrupted, so to be forced to spend half my time away from home/friends/pets, would have made the whole thing even worse.

@SaskiaRembrandt

I agree
I too was the child of divorced parents and I am forever thankful my father didn’t force this upon us.

It concerns me how many parents brush aside the potentially devastating impact this sort of thing will have on children who’ve already been through quite enough. But hey if it’s working for them that’s what matters right?

Cleverpolly3 I'm also glad my dad didn't do this. I saw him every day, but only stayed with him twice a week, which I looked forward to. We were very close, I don't think we would have been if he'd put a desire to be seen as a hands-on dad before my well being though.

50/50 does not seem like a child centred approach.

@toobusytothink

To those questioning my motives he genuinely is just a friend - a colleague who I have worked with for years and is a lot younger than me but often turns to me for advise. You’re right - I shouldn’t be slagging her off though as I don’t know her and only hear one side of the story so I apologise for that, but this is an anonymous forum so I don’t feel bad for discussing “her” business as plenty of people come on here talking about others.

What I really wanted when I started this thread was to understand exactly what 50:50 involved and the things he has to think about - interests of kids, whether he really CAN do it, whether he really wants it etc etc so he can really think before he goes in all guns blazing and causes unnecessary arguments and upset. So thank you to everyone who has given advice. I have no agenda and it doesn’t affect me one bit what he does, but it is good to be able to give him a list of things to think about as it is such a huge decision. Thank you

I think it's pretty crap that he's discussed so much of his wife's personal health and financial with colleagues but that he's also ok with that colleague posting those details on a popular mother's forums to get him advice. Why hasn't the man himself joined one of the many online dads groups available and asked for advise from men who've been through this themselves? I dunno. I just think it's weird that he's got a colleague to ask mumsnet on his behalf, populated by mostly Mothers, surely it makes more sense for him the get advise himself and also from men who've fought for 50/50.

Unless he doesn't know that you're posting his and wife's personal circumstances on mumsnet? If he doesn't know, are you sure he'd be ok with you posting and discussing not just his wife's circumstances but also his own on here for total strangers to discuss and advise on?

Have asked for the thread to be deleted.

IME, many men state they are doing 50-50 as they perhaps do a drop-off, cook a meal etc but gave little insight into the sheer scale of daily parenting. But they will genuinely believe they are doing it if asked.

This.

FWIW exh asked for 50/50, on the basis that he was already doing it and would further change his working hours/lifestyle after the court had endorsed the arrangement. The judge gave him short shrift! Courts see this kind of thing all the time, by all means go for 50/50, as long as it’s not purely a ploy to avoid paying maintenance.

And it should also be noted that abusive men often ask for 50-50 or sole custody as a way of punishment to their ex-partner.

And it's not unheard of for abusive men to make allegations that their ex-p is "mad" or "a crap parent".

Both of these actions can be of a controlling, nasty ex-p who is abusive, using the legal system to continue their abuse.

I'd tread very carefully, OP. Many abusive men can appear "nice" but are in fact manipulating you.

We're all on our best behaviour at work & often you see the person they choose to present at work.,

@LargeProsecco

And it should also be noted that abusive men often ask for 50-50 or sole custody as a way of punishment to their ex-partner.

And it's not unheard of for abusive men to make allegations that their ex-p is "mad" or "a crap parent".

Both of these actions can be of a controlling, nasty ex-p who is abusive, using the legal system to continue their abuse.

I'd tread very carefully, OP. Many abusive men can appear "nice" but are in fact manipulating you.

We're all on our best behaviour at work & often you see the person they choose to present at work.,

This is so true

@Cleverpolly3 - the reason I know this is sadly through experience.

My ex-partner has made false allegations about me, telling his solicitor that I am unstable etc. All lies of course. And he genuinely thinks he's a "great dad" aka Disney Dad. He wants 50-50 to avoid maintenance.

But he's so "nice" on the surface.

Unfortunately men like him exist.

My first thought was it's a major abuse red flag to me. OP when he's at work does he take time off to go to dentists appointments and school sports days? Does he take days off when his child is sick? Or is he reliably there? Because if he working full time and not ducking out all of the time he's not a hands on dad who should have 50/50.

Also why should his poor ex share a house and live like that? A bit of a red flag he would want that.