Court hearing updates

[Chumpnomore]

Hi, don't want to be all doom and gloom but I know it's useful for others to have up to date information when available if going through the court process.
I had a directions hearing today. The judge personally dialled me and my solicitor and stbx/solicitor and we had a five way call.
The judge said courts were running on a skeleton staff and had no idea when anyone would be back in court.
He said we might have to have a FDR by phone.
Anyway, thought might be useful if people waiting for news. Expect delays.

[Weenurse]

I don’t think new partners income comes into the equation.
Good luck all 💐

[Merryterry]

Good morning ladies
I’m in the process of getting the documents together that I want to include in the bundle, he’s putting it together.

Can I ask if anyone can advise on what I include, I’ve got my case summary, the assets that are contested, the chronology. The orders I want issued.

I’ve also got a statement of issues and also a section 25 statement. I’m wondering wether these 2 are the same thing and I’m going to annoy the judge by having separate ones. Can anyone give advice about what goes in these?

In the issues one I’ve got things that I disagree with that he’s said throughout. And the statement 25 is things like income and housing. Should these all be in the one document?

Are there any other documents I should be including and have missed out that you can think of? Should he include Form Es in their entirety as standard in the bundles and the questionnaires?
Thankyou again for any advice you can offer xxx

[Thriwit]

@Merryterry
Is this for a final hearing?

The statement of issues is usually a short, concise summary, detailing what needs sorting out. In my case, it said the property was the main issue. It then had a section for “Orders Sought” which basically said I was seeking to sell the former marital home, get a lump sum payment, and a clean break.

The S25 is a far lengthier statement where you deal with each of the S25 headings in turn. I think mine was about 7 pages.

As far as what documents to include, it’ll depend on what your court order tells you to include. You’ll probably have to have updating disclosure at least. Maybe examples of housing for the both of you.

My bundle had the Form Es without attachments - so just the Form E itself.

[Merryterry]

It’s for the FDR, I’m hoping it’ll be the last one though🤞 Thanks for the information @Thriwit
My case summary is 3 pages but I think it’s all relevant to put forward my version of his lies. It’s so hard to know the best thing to do. The updated disclosures should have been done but I’m still trying to get all of his... I think I’ll have to accept I’m never going to be shown it all and just put my faith in the judge at the FDR seeing through his lies xx

[Rainbowdropz]

Hi @Merryterry did you get a mortgage capacity report from him? Just wondered as you said you didn't get the full disclosure. My ex was sent a schedule of deficiencies due to the poor answers from his questionnaire and he's still not answered or provided the relevant documents to that also. I have an upcoming FDR but I'm not too sure about the documents you stated, as my solicitor isn't at that stage yet. Please let us know how you get on at FDR, I've been so anxious recently thinking about mine. I've been transcribing recorded conversations to use when it comes to the time for putting the bundle together. I hope you're ok x

[Chumpnomore]

Hi @merryterry, the above is correct in that a mortgage capacity statement is probably useful. A lot of my calculations from judge required both our mortgage capacity and also housing examples to see minimum cost of rehousing for both of us. My stbx didn't submit these and got ticked off. Luckily, the broker i used to give me a MC statement also put one together for stbx. Obviously we could only estimate his income etc due to lack of disclosure but it as used by judge anyway.

[Merryterry]

Hi, yes I’ve had the mortgage capacity and we’ve exchanged “suitable” housing schedules, his was outrageously more expensive than what he suggests is suitable for me but I’m sure the judge will see through that as well. It’s savings that he has hidden and doesn’t want to disclose. I’ve sent a statement of deficiancies previously to him and got nowhere. I paid for a directional hearing to get further information and was sent a small amount of information. It’s so frustrating but hopefully after the FDR I can move on. I think I’m going to send all the documents with evidence to be included in the bundle and I’ll apologise to the judge if it’s too much. If the only thing to be referred to in the FDR is the bundle it’s better to have more details than less I think. He loves the shock factor so I’m expecting he’ll have more things to show the judge on the day than he’s told me about, but he can’t make things up without evidence and be believed surely! Thanks both @Rainbowdropz @Chumpnomore

[Rainbowdropz]

@Merryterry

Hi, yes I’ve had the mortgage capacity and we’ve exchanged “suitable” housing schedules, his was outrageously more expensive than what he suggests is suitable for me but I’m sure the judge will see through that as well. It’s savings that he has hidden and doesn’t want to disclose. I’ve sent a statement of deficiancies previously to him and got nowhere. I paid for a directional hearing to get further information and was sent a small amount of information. It’s so frustrating but hopefully after the FDR I can move on. I think I’m going to send all the documents with evidence to be included in the bundle and I’ll apologise to the judge if it’s too much. If the only thing to be referred to in the FDR is the bundle it’s better to have more details than less I think. He loves the shock factor so I’m expecting he’ll have more things to show the judge on the day than he’s told me about, but he can’t make things up without evidence and be believed surely! Thanks both *@Rainbowdropz @Chumpnomore*

@Merryterry at your directional hearing, was the order attached with a penal notice? Also, were you able to claim back costs die to his poor conduct? I had asked my solicitor to go for a directional hearing, but she advised that she thought it would be a waste of time as she didn't think my ex would comply. Was the information you received any useful to you? My ex is also hiding his savings, he's yet to disclose the bank account his salary is paid into, nor has admitted his actual salary amount as he's self-employed. His questionnaire was evasive and his schedule of deficiencies didn't add anymore to it. We were due to exchange mortgage capcity details but he hasn't provided it yet and has missed the deadline. I am interested to see if he does provide it late, if it's based on his fake salary. I'm interested to hear how yours goes as I'm in the same boat sadly. I really do hope it goes in your favour.

[Merryterry]

@Rainbowdropz I don’t have a solicitor so I didn’t know I could ask for my costs to be claimed back. The orders were to do with disclosure and actuary. The info he sent me was useful but not to do with his savings which I think I’ll have to accept I’m never going to know, he’s not very clever so hasn’t realised he’s given me proof that he lied about something else which I can use luckily. I am a big believer in karma so hopefully it’ll be okay for both of us, you sound as though you’re having a horrible time just now too. There is light at the end of the tunnel as the judges must be used to this sort of behaviour. You’re lucky you have a solicitor who can help keep you right. Keep thinking positively xxx

[Rainbowdropz]

Hi @Merryterry hinestky I wouldn't wish the experience of a divorce on anyone. It's been an emotional rollercoster. I can barely afford my solicitor but I know I wouldn't have strength to be a LIP so I find it admirable that you're doing it yourself. Well done and hopefully it'll all be over soon enough. Try having a look at Wikivorce, as I know you can claim costs as a LIP. Last I saw it was £19 ph you can claim on costs. Here is a link from a post in 2018, but the rate may have changed since : divorce.wikivorce.com/advice/court/self-representation/499738-form-h-as-lip

You may be able to try and claim costs back for the FDR if its ineffective due to lack of non disclosure. I wish you the best and you're doing amazing to make it this far!! Xxxxxx

[Rainbowdropz]

I've finally concluded my CAO and I got the contact arrangement I wanted. I'm very pleased with the outcome. I just want to provide a timeline for anyone starting their process.

1. I applied for CAO & filed the C100 in late August 2020
2. I had my first hearing in December 2020
3. I had my second hearing in March 2021
4. I had the final hearing June 2021

I have my FDR to go for the finance side of the divorce and I'm hoping that's the last hearing for finances, but I have a narcissistic ex husband so I'll have to wait and see.

How is everyone getting along and moving forward @Chumpnomore @Merryterry ???

[Merryterry]

Hi @Rainbowdropz
My FDR was yesterday! The bundle didn’t arrive on time obviously… Monday morning I got it electronically and found out he had a barrister. His position statement said he wanted a 70:30 share in favour of him and they would be available before it started for me to contact them. I assume they thought they could bully me into agreeing those terms and baffle me with big words then go to the judge and say we had agreed.
I was left with no option but to hire my own barrister, the best £2k I have ever spent. He was amazing, he threw off all of his ridiculous arguments about why the order should deviate from 50:50! The judge told
SBX in no uncertain terms it would be a 50:50 split at a final hearing so to save everyone money and agree. The judge was very relieved to be dealing with barristers! So the order we have agreed should hopefully be signed sealed and delivered in the next few days! He’s got to sell the house with immediate effect and the equity shared equally. It’s been horrible, we’re back to excactly what we agreed years ago until he got extremely greedy and unreasonable. His own barrister said to mine in the earlier discussion that he wouldn’t budge but was being unrealistic! I think he’s forgotten he was nothing when I met him, everything he has it because of my good choices and savvyness. I never need to see him face again or hear his annoying voice.
Good luck with your FDR and we’ll done getting the contact arrangement you wanted, I’m so so grateful I have an adult child with him! Xx

[Merryterry]

Sorry for late reply! I didn’t want to jinx my FDR it’s been such a long time coming!!

[Chumpnomore]

Hi @merryterry and @Rainbowdropz
Such a relief to hear your news. Merry, so interesting about your agreement and consent order.
My consent order Still hasn't been signed off by judge (FDR was 7 weeks ago and we agreed at that hearing) my solicitor has had to apply for a mention order, which is in July, to chase it up.
Its just a nightmare that we got so near but until judge stamps it i can't apply for the pension order to be put in place or get the decree absolute. Im really at the end of my tether with it all. @merryterry, please let me know if you get it signed soon, this will give me hope!
Rainbow, thanks for the update too! Onwards and upwards ladies! X

[Merryterry]

@Chumpnomore goodness I hope I’m not putting too much faith in the judges words! He said for his barrister to get the orders to him by tomorrow and he would sign them off! And he would also sign an order so we don’t have to reapply for the nisi as it’s been over a year… I believed him and am planning on applying for the absolute ASAP!!! Fingers crossed it wasn’t just lip service and he will sign them off as soon as he receives them 🤞🤞🤞I will keep you posted. His barrister has sent mine the orders and we have agreed to them so his will email them to court tomorrow! I was hoping this nightmare would be over then 😬😞🤞

[Chumpnomore]

It sounds hopeful! TBH it seems ridiculous when it just needs signing by the judge who advised us. I too had that problem with the nisi, so that was sorted like yours was. I have to wait for the pension order to be processed before i can get the absolute. Theres always something to wait for! yes, please let me know if you get it signed soon as that will give me hope! Good luck!

[Rainbowdropz]

@Merryterry

Hi *@Rainbowdropz*
My FDR was yesterday! The bundle didn’t arrive on time obviously… Monday morning I got it electronically and found out he had a barrister. His position statement said he wanted a 70:30 share in favour of him and they would be available before it started for me to contact them. I assume they thought they could bully me into agreeing those terms and baffle me with big words then go to the judge and say we had agreed.
I was left with no option but to hire my own barrister, the best £2k I have ever spent. He was amazing, he threw off all of his ridiculous arguments about why the order should deviate from 50:50! The judge told
SBX in no uncertain terms it would be a 50:50 split at a final hearing so to save everyone money and agree. The judge was very relieved to be dealing with barristers! So the order we have agreed should hopefully be signed sealed and delivered in the next few days! He’s got to sell the house with immediate effect and the equity shared equally. It’s been horrible, we’re back to excactly what we agreed years ago until he got extremely greedy and unreasonable. His own barrister said to mine in the earlier discussion that he wouldn’t budge but was being unrealistic! I think he’s forgotten he was nothing when I met him, everything he has it because of my good choices and savvyness. I never need to see him face again or hear his annoying voice.
Good luck with your FDR and we’ll done getting the contact arrangement you wanted, I’m so so grateful I have an adult child with him! Xx

@Merryterry I'm so happy for you. After following your journey, I'm not surprised the bundle didn't arrive on time. It's just typical isn't it. His position statement was very cheeky, given his poor conduct. I do think it's definitely worth getting a barrister, as this process is so emotive and they remove the emotion when representing you. I'm so glad that you got an outcome you're pleased with. I have my FDR coming up and I've been losing sleep over it. I'm at the point of offering a WP offer and I can't even make a suitable one as he's not disclosed. Can I ask you what type of reasoning the judge used at your hearing to come to their conclusion. I'd be interested to know. Thank you for the good luck, as I know I'll need it xxx

[Rainbowdropz]

@Chumpnomore

Hi *@merryterry* and *@Rainbowdropz*
Such a relief to hear your news. Merry, so interesting about your agreement and consent order.
My consent order Still hasn't been signed off by judge (FDR was 7 weeks ago and we agreed at that hearing) my solicitor has had to apply for a mention order, which is in July, to chase it up.
Its just a nightmare that we got so near but until judge stamps it i can't apply for the pension order to be put in place or get the decree absolute. Im really at the end of my tether with it all. *@merryterry*, please let me know if you get it signed soon, this will give me hope!
Rainbow, thanks for the update too! Onwards and upwards ladies! X

@Chumpnomore I really do hope you get your order signed by the judge soon. Just leaves it all in a sort of limbo, when you want it over with. Hopefully you'll have some good news soon enough xxxx

[Merryterry]

@Rainbowdropz morning, I sympathise with how you feel, I lost so much sleep too. The judge went on the length of the marriage, no dependent children and that it was a needs based case and we both had the same needs. So on that basis he saw no need to deviate from equality and stated categorically that would be the outcome at a final hearing. I’m sure his barrister had their work cut out convincing the selfish pig he had no choice but I’m one very happy camper now! Good luck xxx

[Rainbowdropz]

[quote Merryterry]@Rainbowdropz morning, I sympathise with how you feel, I lost so much sleep too. The judge went on the length of the marriage, no dependent children and that it was a needs based case and we both had the same needs. So on that basis he saw no need to deviate from equality and stated categorically that would be the outcome at a final hearing. I’m sure his barrister had their work cut out convincing the selfish pig he had no choice but I’m one very happy camper now! Good luck xxx[/quote]
Morning @Merryterry , did the judge make any comments regarding his hidden funds and lack of disclosure and non compliance etc? I just wanted to know if he got pulled up on it at all. I'm worried mine could go to a final hearing due to lack of disclosure and him most likely not offering a decent settlement. If you could give any advice or something you feel needs to be added to a position statement, I'd be grateful xxxx

[noideawhatusernametochoose]

This is a really useful thread - thank you :)

@Merryterry that's a great outcome - well done :)

@Rainbowdropz great result on your CAO. I thankfully haven't had to go through that one as we have managed to sort access informally. Like you too I'm waiting for FDR (and am currently sorting out a bundle). It's nerve wracking isn't it.

[Rainbowdropz]

@noideawhatusernametochoose

This is a really useful thread - thank you :)

*@Merryterry* that's a great outcome - well done :)

*@Rainbowdropz* great result on your CAO. I thankfully haven't had to go through that one as we have managed to sort access informally. Like you too I'm waiting for FDR (and am currently sorting out a bundle). It's nerve wracking isn't it.

Hi @noideawhatusernametochoose , thank you I'm pleased with the CAO outcome, but dealing with a CAFCASS officer who is bias was the most difficult part. Glad it's over with, thankfully you've sorted your arrangement out of court. If I may ask, has your ex been transparent and amicable through the financial process? It's all very stressful and I cannot wait to see the back of it.

[noideawhatusernametochoose]

Hi @Rainbowdropz That sounds like a nightmare, thankfully I had no CAFCASS involvement.

Ref finances - no he's been a nightmare all along. We tried mediation initially but he wouldn't comply with disclosure and dragged it out, so I issued Form A. He's not got hidden millions but he has consistently lied about assets and tried to say his income is going to decrease (whereas it's clearly increasing significantly). I've just consistently picked up on his lies and queried any inaccuracy.

[Merryterry]

@Rainbowdropz no I’m afraid the judge didn’t mention that and neither did my barrister. The bundle wasn’t even looked at.. he let both of the barristers speak for 5 minutes then summed up agreeing with my position as I’ve always stated it should be a fair split. Then said he would come back in an hour and see if we had an agreement. If you have young children together you have an advantage over how the marital assets will be shared out I would think.

[Rainbowdropz]

@noideawhatusernametochoose

Hi *@Rainbowdropz* That sounds like a nightmare, thankfully I had no CAFCASS involvement.

Ref finances - no he's been a nightmare all along. We tried mediation initially but he wouldn't comply with disclosure and dragged it out, so I issued Form A. He's not got hidden millions but he has consistently lied about assets and tried to say his income is going to decrease (whereas it's clearly increasing significantly). I've just consistently picked up on his lies and queried any inaccuracy.

@noideawhatusernametochoose my ex is the same, not millions but thousands. He refused mediation, so I had to file with the court. He has lied about how much he earns, due to self employment. I'm hoping that the judge can get an indication of his character for FDR. Like you, I've had to question so much, it's been mentally exhausting. Hopefully the end is near.