Court hearing updates

[Chumpnomore]

Hi, don't want to be all doom and gloom but I know it's useful for others to have up to date information when available if going through the court process.
I had a directions hearing today. The judge personally dialled me and my solicitor and stbx/solicitor and we had a five way call.
The judge said courts were running on a skeleton staff and had no idea when anyone would be back in court.
He said we might have to have a FDR by phone.
Anyway, thought might be useful if people waiting for news. Expect delays.

this is all very worrying. My FDR set for 22nd July. I note many courts are reopening but not mine yet. An FDA on the phone is one thing but how on earth is an FDR supposed to work? How do we breakaway to negotiate? How do I speak confidentially to my barrister? This is all stressful enough without the mess of doing it remotely!

Whitewriting, its hopeful you have a date for FDR, but my solicitor seems to think no court will be doing 'non urgent' hearings in person. I'm in the south east, so he may only have local knowledge on this.
He said to me that instead of he and i meeting at office in person (they are all working at home) we would have to meet in open place or my house to thrash out what i was prepared to negotiate ! However, as you pointed out, how we can negotiate during a phone call FDR , without having an opportunity to speak privately with barrister/solicitor is unrealistic. Keep in touch. Fingers crossed you are able to have a traditional hearing!

Was advised not to go down court route, and really the top and bottom of it is my previous solicitor agreed things "without prejudice" on my behalf, and apparently when it comes to finance it's legally binding. So although I wouldn't have come off any worse, it would potentially cost me a lot more to get what I've got. Mine sent the basics of disclosure, so really we just need the consent order finalising and it's done. We can all move on. Now don't get me wrong there are questionable things in the accounts - but again been advised to let it go - " not in my best interest" because of costs associated with investigating it. Really frustrated I've not got what I wanted for the kids but nothing to be done now.
So at this point now need to try and find a way forward and let go of all the hurt and resentment( which is very difficult when he was discovered as a serial cheat but every message I get I'm called a slag ) . Please do post any updates, I'm here as another virtual support .
Wish you all well - stick to your guns x

@WhiteWriting so FDR by phone, be prepared to be on and off the phone all day. If you need some indications your barrister will ask the judge (usually judge will give email) to come back on. You’ll be given plenty of time to discuss with your barrister on the phone (separately).

@Chumpnomore your sol right - at the moment courts not doing in person cases unless urgent. That may change. Lots of courts are moving onto remote hearings (phone and video) including for family proceedings.

@05StrawberryBlondeStar thats helpful to know how FDR works by phone. Appreciate your insight on this. Sounds really difficult though not being able to do it all in person. Also, whats to stop you from having someone with you?
@Cherrypie3456 thanks for the update. So hard to get to the point of 'letting it go' when you want to provide and protect the kids. I understand completely.
So, how is the final order implemented by court/judge. Does this take time afterwards as well? Everything takes so long. This thread has been a great support, thanks everyone!

@Chumpnomore Judge will give a warning at the beginning that no one apart from parties should be on call.

@StrawberryBlondeStar thanks so much for your input. Can I ask if you have gone through this yourself or are in the legal profession? Can I pick your brains:
When you say indications do you mean the judge saying how he would rule/divide assets if he was doing a final hearing?
Does he do this straight away and then leave you to thrash it out or does he ask you to speak first?
I have a direst access barrister who is writing a position statement to include the schedule of deficiencies as ex was not forthcoming (understatement). Will the judge have read the whole bundle beforehand?
Is it phone or Zoom style?
Is it possible for an FDR to become a final hearing - heard horror story of someone being blindsided by this.
Sorry for all the questions. I am so nervous about this as it has taken two years to get to this stage and I had built a picture of it which has now been replaced with al this jumping between phones and computers nonsense!

@WhiteWriting I’m a barrister:

Indications - So yes the judge at the hearing (but usually only if parties ask) will give you an “indication” of what they think would happen at final hearing on issues. So say a couple are fighting about how to divide equity in a property the judge will give an indication of what they think would happen at a final hearing.

Different judges have different styles. Some are more interventionist and will ask for list of issues in dispute and then give indications. Others will only do so if asked.

Judge may have read everything beforehand (sometimes not everything gets to them). That’s why your barrister is doing a position statement, it effectively sign posts judge to key documents they should look at.

Phone/Zoom - won’t be zoom. Courts not allowed to do zoom. For an FDR highly likely will be phone (probably something called BTMeetMe). If judge wants to use video it will likely be Skype, Teams or CVP, but then court will check if everyone has access to that.

www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-join-telephone-and-video-hearings-during-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreak

The above is a good link to all the different remote hearings courts are using.

Finally, FDR can not be used as a final hearing. The judge dealing with the FDR can not conduct the final hearing. No notes from the FDR can be on the file. This is to ensure parties feel free to make offers/concessions etc without it being used against them at a final hearing.

Don’t worry about the questions. Court is stressful enough and this throws another layer into the mix. Although I know a lot of people actually prefer remote hearings cause then they don’t have to see their ex!

@strawberryBlondeStar
Thanks so much for this useful information. Really helpful to have clarity on a couple of things firsthand. Can you give us an indication of how, when we 'agree' and the order is put together? In other words, once decided between us, does it take months, weeks or days for it to be implemented in a consent? Order?
@WhiteWriting my directions hearing was on btmeetme. It was weird just hearing verbally what was going on without seeing anyone. The judge phoned us all in one by one to join the call.

@sStrawberryBlondeStar you are so kind for telling me all this! My ex just will not accept a 50/50 split of equity and he and his solicitor have been really nasty so far. I am praying we can come to a solution at the FDR. I have read that most settle then or soon after. The cost of a final hearing doesn't bear thinking about.
Do judges ever award costs? (My ex has lied about his income on form E, lied at mediation, hidden his whereabouts and cohabitation and new child, drawn out proceedings and refused to entertain 50/50). I am trying to do most things myself but continue to rack up legal fees!
Will I have to speak? My solicitor said a barrister was money well spent and I imagine he will do the talking and I won't say much to the judge or ex?
Thankyou again - doing all this in the middle of the pandemic has been a nightmare! trying to be across the paperwork - the position statement or copies of form e/chronology/questionnaire replies/schedule of deficiencies and everything else is a full time job.
Could I ask if the judges are usually fully appraised of the case and take time to come to their indications. Reading these forums suggests people sometimes raced through with lots of different hearings happening at once. What is you experience?

@Chumpnomore so it really depends on individual courts at the moment. Some are getting things through quicker (so a couple of weeks versus months) then others. Judge will look at the consent order. They don’t have to approve. They still have to consider its fair and reasonable. (That’s why sols with provide an explanation with agreement). So either they will approve, send back for more info or list for a hearing.

@WhiteWriting judges occasional award costs in Financial Remedies, but it’s not the norm. Usual order is each side bears their costs.

Your barrister will speak for you at the FDR. The judge will probably address you and your ex when describing the FDR process to emphasis it is your hearing though and ultimately your decision if you reach a settlement, but your barrister will be the one talking for you.

I think sometimes people think judges race through hearings, but actually that’s often because they are very experienced so they can easily pick up things, if that makes sense?

Ultimately, this is your hearing. You have to agree to settle. Some hearings people don’t settle at the FDR, but go away and settle later.

Your barrister will advise you on the merits of any offer (and also if they think the judge has got it right). They will also make submissions to the judge on why they should prefer your position.

Brilliant - all very clear now. Thank you again for letting me pick your eminent brain! xxx

@WhiteWriting im in a similar position re costs. In last consent order it was listed that costs would be revisited at FDR as OH, like yours has continued to hold up every process including not submitted correct Form E requirements or reply to our questionnaire( still hasn't) , even though i answered his in August when we had a deadline to swap! My solicitor ended up having to serve a D11 on them to let us go ahead with actuary for pension, even though it is advisory for public sector pensions.
Keep us posted about your hearing date. Really hope you get this sorted soon.all the best x

@WhiteWriting @Cherrypie3456
@Momentumneeded
Hello all. How are you? Any progress your end?
Still waiting for FDR date here so no movement. Been thinking about you all and hope things moving forward for you!

Hello @Chumpnomore - lovely to hear from you. FDR set for end of the month and still no news on whether this will be remotely or in person. I note with interest that family courts are reopening - mine reopened on Monday - so not sure what that means? Bad news on house prices from Nationwide today. Need to get the house on the market asap ideally but can't until the financials are sorted and I have the feeling he (ex) won't budge.
How are things with you?

Hi @WhiteWriting good to hear your FDR still hopeful for this month. I wonder when they will let you know how it will take place?
My solicitor chasing court for FDR date as still haven't heard,even though our judge at directions hearing on may 6th said we should hear soon after that.
Its weird about house prices, in my part of south east thing still seem to be moving, but of course by time I put on market, anything could happen! Have you got a settlement in mind? Have you negotiated with OH in preparation for the FDR? My OH refuses to respond to any suggestion of settlement ideas, so im not really sure how we push on with that!

i had a settlement in mind = 50/50 house equity and no claim on pensions/savings/debts. Clean break. He won't go for that! Wants all he has ever paid repaid to him! Struggling with concept of 'joint' assets!

Evening ladies.
I've just come across this thread and thought I'd come in and say hello
I have an ex who sounds similar to yours!
Neither of us have any money, there's only the marital home which I can just about afford if I don't eat but he's trying to force the sale to release a tiny amount of equity.
Application submitted to court for FDR on 14 April, just got a court date for first hearing via BT Meetme for September 9th.
Frickin petrified and utterly delighted all at the same time.

@goldwrapped hello! Glad to hear you actually have a date. Its hard to think how FDRs will work through Meetme. I had a directions hearing that way and it was very strange not seeing a judge. Have you got a solicitor /barrister or doing yourself? What preparations will you make before September 9th? Keep in touch! Sad we are all in this position but its so helpful others sharing stories and advice!

Hi @Chumpnomore and everyone else! Good to hear from you!

@Chumpnomore - how long have you been waiting for a date now?!

@WhiteWriting - my stbx is exactly the same - no concept of joint pot. It's his money and mine. Rewritten a long mariage to say he's subsidised my income post kids and doesn't see how his career has taken off thx to me managing everything at home. It's all about him. He's up to all sorts and has also said I shouldn't even get 50%!

I've reached a crossroads I think. Still no sign of his form E from but he is now paying some interim maintenance. Needed solicitor intervention to get that though and I can't afford it anymore as he's self representing so I was paying my sol £££ to digest long letters that had no bearing on anything - just mud slinging. Put a stop to that. I think it might be the court route but trying to understand - can I do a MIAM on my own (have strong grounds to argue mediation might not be appropriate) and can anyone please give me a realistic idea of how long it takes from submitting form A (?) to FDR to final hearing (if it goes that far) - my Sol said a year! At that rate the whole divorce is going to take 2-3 years. 😬😩Anyone doing a combined first directions and FDR/ private FDR? Any insights??? Costs? He's finally mentioned mediation (think he's had free legal advice and been told he's better off with mediation) - wondering whether to push it but no idea if a mediator will see through him and whether I will be squished down further but I know he will be utterly vicious in court and he would have no prob funding expensive legal representation but I would prob have to litigate in person. Just want it over now. At my wits end living under same roof and starting new job soon hopefully.

Hugs to you all. Who knew we were so strong! Still here, still doing our best for our kids and putting one foot in front of the other somehow in spite of everything X

@Momentumneeded so sorry you have to still share a house. That must be agony.
I wanted mediation but he refused. I wish id stood my ground and said i wouldn't move forward without it. He had to attend one meeting with her to say he didn't want it, to get the MIAM in place.
Remember any agreement still has to be by court so i think its overall fair?
My form A was 18 months ago.. As you know, still no date for FDR. Its because he stalls every step and has refused to cooperate It shouldn't have to take so long! I think because hes with his new love nest he had his head in the sand.
I've spent £8000 getting this far. I have most of it on one credit card so i can show my legal costs in one place. Im hoping that ill be able to claim some costs from his share as he has held up every process.
Its ridiculous i know. But i have to get this over with so me and my children can start over properly.
Keep in touch everyone x

It's so lovely to know we're not alone. Thank you for welcoming me.
I haven't had time to read everyone's stories yet but I thought I'd share mine for now, sorry if that's a bit rude but I hope it helps!
I didn't have to mediate (he broke my jaw and was arrested so I had evidence of DV) but I was so keen to get things sorted I said I would try meditation.
The mediator was utter shite. It was a complete waste of time and money and gave him yet another opportunity to play games in advance of, during and after the meeting. The mediator was a wet blanket and didn't help. If you're going to mediate with a narcissist, you need a pit bull!
I have taken advantage of the free half an hour of advice from several local solicitors and finally went back to the first one I met. He's no nonsense and expensive but replies to any query immediately.
I completed the Form E myself and sent it to him for review, he submitted the court forms on my behalf, offered some advice and that's about it, which has cost me around £1500 so far.
But the beauty of involving a solicitor is that I don't have to engage with my ex at all (luckily my 3 children aren't his). As soon as he received a letter from my solicitor my ex started taking me seriously. No more suicide threats, the aggressive abusive messages stopped and I got control back. Worth every penny. It's helping me heal and feel strong.
I can finally see the light at the end of this, it's been 18 months since he left and I am about 75% healed.
One solicitor I met said 'men like your husband need a judge to tell them they're in the wrong' and I reckon she's right.
Keep on trucking lovely ladies, we will all get there eventually!

@goldwrapped you have shown such strength - what an inspiration to your children!
I agree that some men need a judge to tell them what they won't hear from you. I only hope it goes 50/50 for me and I haven't made an expensive gamble!