Court hearing updates

[Chumpnomore]

Hi, don't want to be all doom and gloom but I know it's useful for others to have up to date information when available if going through the court process.
I had a directions hearing today. The judge personally dialled me and my solicitor and stbx/solicitor and we had a five way call.
The judge said courts were running on a skeleton staff and had no idea when anyone would be back in court.
He said we might have to have a FDR by phone.
Anyway, thought might be useful if people waiting for news. Expect delays.

[Rainbowdropz]

[quote Merryterry]@Rainbowdropz no I’m afraid the judge didn’t mention that and neither did my barrister. The bundle wasn’t even looked at.. he let both of the barristers speak for 5 minutes then summed up agreeing with my position as I’ve always stated it should be a fair split. Then said he would come back in an hour and see if we had an agreement. If you have young children together you have an advantage over how the marital assets will be shared out I would think.[/quote]
@Merryterry thank you for getting back to me about this. I will be here to update you in a few months time, I've been losing sleep over this all. I just hope it's clear to the judge what he's been doing.

[Rainbowdropz]

Hi @Merryterry and @Chumpnomore I hope you're both doing well. @Chumpnomore have you had any updates regarding your order and @Merryterry have you received yours yet?

I had my FDR at the end of June and the whole thing was just a mess. My ex's barrister didn't provide the judge with a statement, so he was irritated. My ex had not provided a full disclosure so the judge said his finances were unclear and opaque. My ex did provide a mortgage raising capacity report which was significantly higher than mine, even though he stated he earns less than me. Based on what the Judge could see, he advised that I should get the bulk of the equity from the house and he should be given a small amount. The judge advised that if we didn't come to a settlement, he would be attaching a penal notice to the order so that my ex would have to provide his business statements and a statement from an app he uses for money transfers. The judge told us he couldn't meet again due to an emergency hearing so he gave us till the Wednesday of the following week.

Our barristers went back and forth negotiating and we didn't end up with an agreement. As we both live in the FMH, he spoke to me in person and told me had agreed to an 80k settlement. My ex explained to me that the 80k he was offering was 57k from the equity and 23k of my pension (which he wouldn't touch). I was unaware that his offer included my pension and I thought it cheeky that he had put it in there, as of he was entitled to all of it. I rejected his offer and my solicitor sent him my offer based on what the Judge advised. My ex's soliciotr informed us that he needed time to consider even though he had agreed to it in person, so we missed the Wednesday deadline and my barrister wrote the order including the penal notice. On the following Monday he declined my proposal and sent a counterproposal offering me 50% of the equity, which I declined.

Due to the above, we are now heading for a final hearing. He had a deadline to provide his business accounts and I've recently learned that he earns significantly more than he had informed me. I honestly want the whole thing to end, as living in the same house is so toxic. I'm waiting for the final hearing to be listed at present.

[Merryterry]

Oh my goodness that sounds horrific for you. It’s positive from the judge though and surely his solicitor will be telling him it’s likely he will lose out at a final hearing so save you both the expense. The judge will be used to characters like him trying to hide and mislead. Hopefully some sence will be banged into him before a final hearing. You are doing amazingly being able to live in the house with him. It’s not for much longer now, the end is definately in sight for you.

My decree absolute came thru the following week, I think the judge was glad to get us off his books tbh. The house is currently on the market and hopefully will sell quickly.
He sent me a long message attempting to use a different estate agents than the one named in the orders, he said if we both agreed to that it wouldn’t matter, he now says the house is worth considerably more than he said it was a few short months ago when it suited him to have a lower valuation but I told him in no uncertain terms I shall be following the orders to the letter and he was to communicate with the estate agents only and not me. I am of the opinion that he has shown he is not to be trusted for one second and if I don’t follow the orders which were agreed then when he goes back on other things I would not have a leg to stand on. I just hope the house sells soon and we can all move on. It’s so silly he’s caused all this expense and bitterness and he’s been awarded exactly what we agreed when we first separated. All he’s done is lost £10k in solicitor and actuary fees…the greed of these men is unbelievable

[Chumpnomore]

@Rainbowdropz what a nightmare. Im so sorry. At least the judge seemed to have a level head. It all sounds hideous that you may have to head for a final hearing when the judge had indicated what he will put in place to support the hearing and surely your ex can see it won't end well for him.
@merryterry im pleased you have made progress! Everything is so time consuming and exhausting getting to that point.
I am in a similar situation re house. Value increased and because of that, my greedy ex is insisting we go with the estate agent which has the highest valuation, regardless of whether its a decent agent in our area.
My decree absolute came yesterday. What a long road its been.
So grateful for this thread as its helped knowing i haven't been alone on this journey. Keep in touch ladies x

[AustinRd]

All I just wanted to reiterate how amazing you all are and how well you are doing!! I’m also pleased to report that 3-4months post CAO and FAO settlement I am so much happier and healthier and you will be too! The stress really does take it’s toll no matter how well people say you are doing. Ive finally put weight back on having dropped from a 12 to a 6 due to all the stress. Best bit of all as I dont have to speak to Ex and when he emails (his only permitted mode of contact) I can ignore them too if I want. Here’s to a more settled future for you all x

[Chumpnomore]

@AustinRd its really good to hear from you and your updates. I know it eas a painfully long process for you too.
Yes, hopefully the end is now in sight for me and others on here

[Rainbowdropz]

@Merryterry the judge could see through it all, so I'm hoping the next one will too. I'm so pleased for you, once the house sells you'll have no need to communicate. As you said, it's best you stick to the order, so nothing can be used against you. The greed of these men is unbelievable, now there's light at the end of the tunnel for you.

@Chumpnomore I honestly hope I get my court date listed soon, it's oozing very likely that I'll have to put the house on the market and due to his stubbornness I've now missed all the stamp duty holidays.

@AustinRd thank you for your words of encouragement. You're proof that things get better and right now, I need all the positivity to keep going so thank you.

[momentumneeded]

Hello you fabulous ladies. I'm sorry for the lack of updates but it's been rather hellish and my head has been a mess frankly. I'm a bit better thx to HRT (menopause on top of divorce, Covid, redundancy ! Joy 🤦‍♀️) but still so much divorce crap to somehow find the energy/ mental strength to wade through.

But your updates give me hope there is an end to it all and in the meantime all the tips, insights, support and understanding (who else would believe the relentless drain and nastiness of it all!) are just amazing. @Thriwit @Palaver1 even now I'm taking so much useful bits from your posts! Huge thx for sharing your experiences everyone.

@Chumpnomore*,*@Merryterry and @AustinRd You are amazing and i'm so thrilled you finally have your DA. Hope you had a celebration!

@Rainbowdropz it all just sounds horrendous and I know how hideous it is to be living together through it all and trying to shelter the kids too. And now a final hearing...like you haven't been through enough.

@noideawhatusernametochoose
I think we are at similar stages. How are you doing with it all?

I'm trying to scroll through to see if any of you can advise on the following:

Questionnaire for initial remedy hearing. I'm guessing you've also encountered hugely irrelevant, fishing type requests from your ex. How do I deal with these as a LIP - do I really have to respond to every hugely detailed, ridiculous request when so much is irrelevant to finances but just digging into deeply personal stuff and a blatant attempt to undermine my credibility with untruths and aspersions? Do I respond before or at the hearing?

Bundle - my ex is compiling this with Sol. Support but am I supposed to submit anything for it? Witness statement? What even is that? Do I get sight of it before the hearing? I know it will be full of misleading comments and untruths.

I can't see how we can possibly cover all the stuff that has been raked up in the time we have for the hearing. In your experience does the judge just cut through it all to the numbers or do they really look back at historic stuff and take account of poor conduct comments (ex has belatedly counter accused after comments I made in my court application/ Form E 🙄)

Please tell me the judges can see it all for what it is - a smokescreen for entitlement, greed, abuse and lies.

[Rainbowdropz]

Hi @Momentumneeded, it's honestly the worst. We've out our house on the market now and funds will be split following our final hearing in Jan 2022. I unfortunately have a 7 month wait between FDR and final hearing. As soon as I got the date I agreed to sell the house, cos I cannot continue living with that excuse of a man.

In regards to the questionnaire you don't answer anything until the judge approves the questions. If there's anything that you think is a fishing exercise you can make the judge aware at FDA and point it out. Following the hearing you'll be given a date as to when you need to answers the questions by and the same for your ex.

In regards to the bundle you should get sight of it before the hearing and you should be asked to confirm you're happy with your contents. The bundle should consist of a chronology of key dates within your marriage. You both need to do one each. Also you'll need to prepare a statement of issues. It basically a list of questions you want the court to consider e.g. should the family marital home be sold? What debts are matrimonial? What are the parties realisation monthly income requirements? What are the parties housing needs? Form G - whether you'll use the FDA as a FDR, this can only go ahead if you have a full and Frank disclosure really. Form H - your costs that you have incurred. As a LIP you will need to find out how much your time is worth per hour. I think I saw on the wikivorce website that it's £21 per hr but you'll have to check. Make sure you record time you spend on preparation of paperwork so if for some reason your FDR is ineffective due to your ex's non compliance etc. and you go to a final hearing you can try and claim costs back from him. You'll need to include a position statement and the questionnaire you want your ex to answer.

It may be worth asking for your ex to provide his CV if he is the type to pretend he earns less due to self employment. I think that's it for FDA.

In regards to judges seeing through it all, I think they can tell when someone's being dodgy. I'll find out the magnitude of what they can tell when I go to final hearing.

I hope that helps :)

[Palaver1]

Not a problem just got my absolute.
Its just not ending and I remain on my solicitor books as they recognise his a fing bastard
He is supposed to remove my name from.the rental property and I'm to remove his name from.the family house.
His refusing to do this ,even though the court order has said we should.
I can't give him the 55,000 if my name is on the property and he says he can't move there till his refurbished and if I don't give him the 55 he can't refurbished
I can't explain my hatred ....
His a ffing bastard. I'm well cross

[Palaver1]

Please tell me the judges can see it all for what it is - a smokescreen for entitlement, greed, abuse and lies.

Yesvthey are well experienced in cases like this .
Keep calm.dont say to much stick to.the facts .

[momentumneeded]

@Palaver1 it is just never-ending isn't it?! Really hope he soon complies - these men and their pathetic attempts to exert control...ps I love your 'I'm well cross'. 🤣. Perfect example of British understatement!

@Rainbowdropz completely understand why you've made that decision and can't believe you have to wait until Jan for the final hearing. We should all get Olympic medals for sheer resilience. Does that mean you and buyers would have to wait for outcome of final hearing and financial order before you can exchange though as I guess it means you won't know the equity split? It's such a brain ache trying to navigate it all and juggle all the variables.

Thx so much for the really useful explanation. Now it all makes far more sense. Haha. Wondering if my ex understands the judge has to approve questions when he was compiling his ridiculous list that really only just stopped short of me wearing a full body camera, giving him passwords for my life and handing him power of attorney.

So for the FDR the pre-work is answering the approved questions and a position statement? I really just want to go with what ever the judge feels is a fair split and likely outcome at final but do I have to express an actual without prejudice settlement preference in the position statement before the judge gives their view? It seems back to front given I don't have a bench mark without trawling through case law. 🤷‍♀️

[Merryterry]

Ignore anything he’s asking which isn’t relevant, I told the judge during a directional hearing about his phishing excersises and he was asked there and then to justify why he was asking those questions. I only had to answer the relevant ones to the finances. Deeply personal stuff is nothing to do with the finances. I think you should send the answers before the next hearing so it looks like you’re being as compliant as possible, and the irrelevant questions answer with n/a to finances.

Any untruths and insinuations need to be proven so as long as they aren’t true (or relevant to finances) say that in your answers.

You should see the bundle a few days before the hearing, I was expecting a paper copy but received it electronically so had to print out what I needed etc. He also was compiling it with help of a solicitor (thank goodness as he’s incompetent!) I sent a position statement, an updated chronology, summary of finances. I sent all the documents which I had mentioned in everything I sent.

Make sure the housing is dealt with on the bundle from your perspective as that’s an important aspect, up to date mortgage prospects. Housing for both of you. My ex was very excessive in his housing needs (single person wanting to stay living in FMH which was 6 bedrooms) over inflated his monthly expenses. Refuses to work since taking (very) early retirement. Where as I work still and pay for new housing costs so I don’t have to live anywhere near him. I truthfully told my income and expenses.

The judge has seen greedy cretins like your ex (and mine) over and over. I’m sure our judge had already decided what he was going to award before the hearing started (probably at the very first hearing actually) and he ordered what was fair to both parties. We had a 24 year relationship, no dependants (thank goodness) and he fairly ordered 50:50 split. Your judge will recognise his bad behaviour and petty games the same as mine did. They will just ignore anything which isn’t to do with finances.

If you want a directional hearing you can submit a D11 form to the court at any time, both my ex and I did that to get further information and clarification.

Good luck with everything, it’s worth it in the long run. To have everything ordered by the court and knowing he can’t go back on what has been said (he did try but was reminding by the estate agents of the court orders which he didn’t like apparently🤣) is worth it’s weight in gold. I’m currently waiting for the house sale to finalise and then will never need to think about it again. I am happy in a new relationship and I know he won’t be happy for the rest of his days.

[Rainbowdropz]

@Merryterry @Chumpnomore I've finally had my final hearing. I was awarded 85% from the sale of the house and £600pcm spousal maintenance. It'll start once the house is sold. No costs were awarded, so I'll have to use the money from the equity I get from the sale of the house to pay my debts back.

My ex husband hid assets, "loaned friends money", "borrowed money", lied about his income and never provided full and frank disclosure. Additionally, I recently learned that he purchased a home, after forcing me into taking a mortgage holiday on the FMH that has been sold subject to contract. On day one, he was cross examined by my barrister and he could barely answer the questions put to him. He was caught up in his lies and at one point the judge said "you've told me four different stories regarding that payment, I'll give you one last go." The judge was very proactive to the point he googled a company from my ex's bank statement (during the hearing) that he had claimed to use to purchase something for his father abroad and identified that it was his dad's company. He got caught out on so many lies that I caught second hand embarrassment and cringed. The judge also calculated his true earnings as he said he earned £719pcm but his average salary was £100k+.

On day two of the hearing,the outcome was that I was awarded 85% of the equity from the sale proceeds of the FMH and I was awarded spousal maintenance of £600pcm until my child is 18 or I remarry. I accumulated around £20k of debts on credit card due to legal fees, my barrister asked if fees could be awarded but he said I should use money from the sale proceeds. It wasn't the outcome I exactly wanted as whole, but it was much better than I expected and close to my open offer.

FYI: I submitted my divorce application May 2020, Nisi was pronounced June 2020, Absolute granted in April 2021.

I applied for the child arrangements order August 2020. First hearing was Jan 2021, Second hearing was March 2021 and Final hearing June 2021.

I applied for the financial remedy application August 2020, FDA was March 2021, FDR was June 21 and Final Hearing Jan 2022.

[NonMolestation]

@Rainbowdropz
I was wondering how it works. If you both life in FMH and then divorce begins, at what point do you live apart? It seems that you need to have finances sorted and childcare attachments in place but I can't imagine they dovetail, so do you have to live together for a year and beyond while fighting it out in courts?

Think I might have to start my own thread asking this!

[Rainbowdropz]

[quote NonMolestation]@Rainbowdropz
I was wondering how it works. If you both life in FMH and then divorce begins, at what point do you live apart? It seems that you need to have finances sorted and childcare attachments in place but I can't imagine they dovetail, so do you have to live together for a year and beyond while fighting it out in courts?

Think I might have to start my own thread asking this! [/quote]
@NonMolestation I wouldn't suggest leaving the house unless it's a DV case. Whoever leaves the house has more to lose in my opinion. Because if you have an uncooperative ex and you're made to sell the house, they can purposely drag their feet, prevent house viewings or prevent you from gaining entry to the property etc. To obstruct the sale of the house. And also if it drags on for too long, the person who left could be liable to paying capital gains tax on the property once its sold, as its no longer their main residence.

I only left the house as I knew we were in the process of selling, the final hearing was set in stone and that everything would be completed by the end of the financial year so I wouldn't have to pay capital gains tax. Me and my ex husband also had an interim agreement for our son before I moved out and when I moved out we had a court ordered child arrangements order following a final hearing. I wouldn't recommend living together in terms of the mental damage it does and the arguments my son was exposed to, but I couldn't afford to move out until one of the cases were settled due to legal fees. I filed for divorce in March 2020 but the court applications weren't until August 2020 and I moved out of the FMH in September 2021. It was an extremely stressful period.

I hope that helps.

[Mylifehasimploded]

Bury StEdmonds…..any known delays?

Applied for divorce Sept 2019
Refused Jan 2020
Resubmitted Jan 2020
Nisi agreed December 2021 but nothing since. All I know is it went to be written up (whatever that means), and after calling them, I now have to write to find out where the paperwork is.
Is this normal?

We have agreed a settlement,but can’t finalise it until the Nisi arrives. Court has been delayed multiple times now