Court hearing updates

[Chumpnomore]

Hi, don't want to be all doom and gloom but I know it's useful for others to have up to date information when available if going through the court process.
I had a directions hearing today. The judge personally dialled me and my solicitor and stbx/solicitor and we had a five way call.
The judge said courts were running on a skeleton staff and had no idea when anyone would be back in court.
He said we might have to have a FDR by phone.
Anyway, thought might be useful if people waiting for news. Expect delays.

@Chumpnomore thank you! I will!
Keep on trucking ❤️

Well, its been a while..I started this thread a year ago to report that the court in the south east had huge delays and this was having an impact on my hearing, and it seems others.
Eventually I had a FDR booked for November but this was cancelled the day before..
Anyway, at last the FDR took place last week using the courts CVP platform. i thought id outline briefly what happened , in case it helps someone else.
The day before I received a link to use for the hearing. I had a chance to chat with my barrister via zoom just before the hearing which was useful. My STBX did not provide the information required (statements/disclosure/property particulars) until one hour before, which made it very challenging to absorb the information! He also failed to offer a proposal until the hearing begun!!! He got ticked off a couple of times for non disclosure.
Anyway, my barrister spoke for about ten minutes and the judge asked a couple of questions before moving on to my exs barrister who did the same.
The judge seemed very cluded up. my ex had said in his proposal that he was 'lodging' with his girlfriend(!) and even provided a rental agreement....Judge gave no time for such nonsense.

After listening and reading it all, the judge spend ten minutes giving his thoughts on where we should negoiate.He said I was working within my full capacity (despite SBTX insisting I should change jobs)and said we should be able to house within a similar price range, (2 bed flat) We have university age children and judge absolutely wanted them to have somewhere to go in the holidays.
Interestingly, judge said I should expect spousal maintenance of around £400 for five years due to our big difference in income and being a 24 year marriage. Luckily, we had already got a pension report which equalised our pensions and we were told we should be following this advice, which was me getting half (even using pension after separation) which I was surprised about.
I had always wanted more of the house equity so could rehouse (small!)without a mortgage so after a full day of negotiations, we agreed i would get a higher lump sum instead of spousal. This means there will be a clean break which is always going to be preferable.
Overall, Im pleased. Most importantly, its done. The waiting and unknown was horrific as I know so many of you know.
Top tips would be beg, borrow or steal a barrister. Not just for the talking but they know how far to push and negotiate. They often know the judges and have a insight to how they rule. My barrister said our judge hated to talk about who brought what to the marriage , so we left that out, but my exs barrister said my ex brought £20,000 of inheritance three years after we married, and the judge said, I don't want to hear about that!!!
Think ive gone on a bit!!
@Merryterry @Palaver1*@goldwrapped @AustinRd* @Cherrypie3456 would be lovely to hear how you all are! Sorry if ive missed anyone xx

Lovely to hear from.you
I'm still in the crap but its so true about the barrister.
I have used 3 and the last was the best despite I think one of them being a deputy judge almost at the status of a judge.
My *** never ever got any representative he never engaged a lawyer nothing or barrister
What I have learnt if your a saver be very careful

I have 2 pensions quite good ones and have saved.
Mainly due to.my daughters condition of autism.
I put every penny into.pensions.
Despite almost similar earnings he only has a pension of 100 000 to show we are both mid 50s.
We were given financial advice 2003.I was to top up on my AVC .he was to do more about his pension he choose shares.asked to produce evidence of this he said he'd sold them.and that was that.
Very unfair
This was my issue but the judge who had been in our case the first time round(3rd time now)

Said he remembered our case and was keen to see how we had moved along my God he was totally disgusted with all the nonsense.
He allowed documentation of my daughters needs from school chalms social services and agreed that the pension could and would not be shared equally .
God bless him .
I'm keeping all my pensions mind you I might have to retire early.
Which I don't want but who knows.
The house I'm keeping and only as its in the right postcode.
All services have been supportive and we are known to them.its a 4 bedroom.property but he has the rental property 3 bedrooms as well as his 2 bedroom flat .
He does not want to pay any maintenance after 18 despite the fact we pay 650 monthly on care after school .her needs won't change.he will only pay half of this nothing more.
I'm to pay him 55000 as well as pay the tax on the rental as I'm transfering to him 31 000
We have some mortgage left on this house and so I'm going to have to remortgage which has been agreed by the bank .
Tenants are to be given 6 months notice .He is to move there. He might decide not to thats his issue not mine
The expectation is for him to agree and sign of we have another hearing where its going to be signed of its by the same judge he is given us this opportunity 4th so we don't go to high court for final hearing mind you this has gone on from.november 2018.
His not pleased I've had to pay for my lawyers whilst also in a way paying when he gets in touch with them as he pleases.
I will always be grateful to the last barrister I used who set a lot of this up she was marvellous hard working dignified and invested .
My advice is that you at times don't have enough time to explain in an hour it is worth paying for a meeting of 2 hrs with the barrister before the day.
My case is complex as our daughter has a life long condition.
I'm waiting on him.to sign the papers.Drafts are going up and down. He keeps on questioning and delaying.
We have the next hearing end of May.
I'm.pleased yours has gone well.
Cant believe I'm still in this nightmare with .
We still.live in the same house.
I can testify that the police have been ace when it comes to domestic abuse during the lock down .
No shame got hhem in during he first lock down all that verbal abuse just wasn't prepared to take it any longer.
Guess what coward that he is after the firm stern warning has he done same ..definately not.Dont know why I didn't think to call them all these years back

For got its a clean break although he fought for mesher...bastard

@Chumpnomore lovely to hear from you and to find out you are getting some closure! It’s a huge sense of relief.
@Palaver1 sounds so frustrating but you are so nearly there. Keep sharing your experiences and tips they all help others going through similar not feel quite so alone.
I also have an update, as part of my FDR I agreed to put the house on the market (only way to really know it’s value as all the experts gave differing values) but I had a right to buy. It “sold” pretty quickly but with the help of an amazing financial advisor who had lots of experience with domestic abuse I found a way to buy ex out! I am now the proud owner of the home I lovingly restored over 10y and spent a fortune on, that ex did nothing in/to and that I thought would be lost in all this. Most importantly DC haven’t had to move, are healing and we found out in March that eldest got our first choice of senior school. Life is much more positive. The only downside is my head this morning as I went out out with girlfriends last night 🤕🤣

I’m so pleased things have worked out for you @Chumpnomore can I ask did you always know it wouldn’t go to a final hearing? I’m awaiting lots of documents before the FDR next month, without them I can’t see how we can had full disclosure. There’s a directional hearing in a few weeks which will hopefully force him to send me them. I was worried that would mean the FDR would be delayed again but reading that you received documents even an hour before gives me hope it won’t have to be delayed again! I fully expect my ex to want it to go to a final hearing, he knows he’s being unreasonable and how much this is affecting me. He is refusing to negotiate atall. I would love to think the FDR will be where everything gets decided but it’s hard to feel optimistic.

@Merryterry this was my ex too! I received documents and statements during the hearing initial hearing and he was ordered to disclose/provide proof of his statements. By the FDR some had materialised others appeared in the morning but it didn’t fundamentally change my approach because I had my evidence. My barrister commented on the game playing and lack of transparency (this was evident in the CAO hearings too and due to the issues in that the judge had the case notes) The judge did comment on this during the FDR evidence and at summing up.
My legal team all thought it would go to final hearing so all of us were surprised that we settled in the day but I think that was because the judge was v clear, if they were formally ruling they would be looking at xyz (they went through each argument/claim and told us in their opinion how a judge would rule or what would be needed to deviate from that. Honestly it was very much, “if you go to final hearing unless there is a tonne of new evidence this will be the outcome. Save yourself the time, money and hassle and come to an agreement”

@Chumpnomore
Its awful but I'm ever so pleased it worked out for you.
In all honesty all things being equal I would love to sell this house and move to another but I can't. Due to my daughters care.
I have plans of redoing it over again just to make it sort of new if you get my drift.
Outside door and porch needs changing etc.
The only people who got something out of this have been the the layers barristers but @Merryterry I would not have gotten to this stage if I hadn't engaged them .My most recent overcoat bill is over the cost of a brand new range rover.
never did Jack never filled anything never complied never did anything to make it move forward its only because the judge told him he would be seen in contempt of court that he did anything and that was half hazard.
I hope you get something from him without his input they might rule without him.thats why you need as much evidence as you can .I'm tired I really am covid didn't make it easier.
I remember the last hearing we were told to dress respectfully. I'm.very aware impressions count and I did even though we were online.
He refused to show his face his connection kept on cutting of he pretended he didn't understand questions statements .the time was running out and he milked it.
I was in the same house and made sure I didn't use the house connection as his always controlled it I paid tesco my mobile phone providers for coverage .
The judge was highly irritated Between the barrister and himself they decided we meet up again in the evening .
still couldn't finalise and this is where his not having a lawyer really came into play no representatives does not make sense at times.
The barrister worked on getting it sorted with the judge but to no heed .He was difficult just nasty
They tried next day was Xmas holiday break up and the barrister still spoke with him at length trying to sort it out at no cost to myself
Next hearing was March ending but changed to May ending as it the same judge who wants to see this through .

He did say he was highly disappointed in our affairs .He is very concerned about our daughters welfare and is highly impressed with my conduct.
I have done everything in my home kitchen refit bathroom refit buying every white good .when he leaves he takes sound system of over 25 years and iron.
Thats all his contributed .apart from paying his half of the mortgage and his share of bills.
I never knew he was a secret gambler.

@AustinRd im so pleased for you! I know you have had such a long, difficult journey and to hear you have your own house now is fabulous. Great for your children too as they have less upheaval. Im glad you went out last night to raise a glass. Its been a long time coming, i know!
@palaver1 this all sounds horrible and sorry its still ongoing. Keep checking in here, it has really helped me the last couple of years knowing others take their time to listen and offer advice. Keep positive
@merryterry the lack of disclosure is agony isn't it. All along, my ex has held things back but tbh it made him look like a pr**k last week as when he submitted the proposal and disclosure, his barrister didn't know the facts! He kept saying, errr, and one moment judge and i think the judge understood what was happening.
The hearing will go ahead unless you or ex ask for it to be vacated, so my advice is that you do everything by book and then judge can clearly see who's messing about. He will go on what you tell him. For example, if you say in your proposal, its my understanding that ex has extra income and 3 new cars, then unless your ex has provided information to the contrary, your info will be used.
This worked for me as he didn't provide a mortgage capacity but within my one i also asked a broker to give an example of what he could get on his salary and age. The judge used this as evidence!
As far as final hearing goes, mu costs have been high. Ex did not provide his information on costs, again this is non disclosure. Judge said to our barristers, please do everything you can today to get your clients to settle asi don't want them spending £30000 on final hearing. He said if it went to final hearing, we would need another actuary report for pension (ours is to years old) and much of the disclosure updated.... He kept saying please settle today.
A few times he said it was 'disappointing' that exs disclosure was incomplete and therefore based his thoughts on my docs!!
Hope that helps merry! Happy to answer anything else! X

Yes your so right hence the judge meeting up again in the evening.
In my case he said he didn't want it to go to final hearing if it did he would order he paid the cost he was irritated more so that he had not taken his advice of getting some representation when we first met.
I just wish that it hadn't been so many months back as the little bit of fear that was instilled in him seems to have evaporated butI remain hopeful.
I'm just so tired sort of exhausted I can't explain it

Those are all really useful points ladies thanks, I wish I could afford a solicitor but I just can’t. He hasn’t either so far and I don’t believe he will in the future. Does anyone have any idea how much a final hearing will cost if it does go to that? I have been willing to attempt mediation but he refused to, will that be taken into account? Nor will he discuss any negotiations in between hearings.
At the start of the FDR will we both get to make an opening statement?

Oh merry, im sorry, theres me banging on about a barrister.. Tbh, i think most people will never be able to afford their divorce, in my case i borrowed money from family as i knew it gave me a better chance at the hearings, but thats obviously left me with debt.
Re the FDR, you provide a position statement which has all the information and facts the judge needs and this is submitted 7 days before (or in my exs case, 1 hour...) . He then had a 'heads up' before the hearing.
Then, both barristers went over a few important points, like earning capacity and housing needs. I assume if you are doing this yourself, then you will do this. The judge then picks up on a few things and may ask questions.
My barrister said that the judge didn't want him just to read or repeat what was in the position statement, but more go over the important issues.
During his talky bit, the judge was quite forecful in saying we should settle at the end of the fdr and said that we could end up with a extra bill of £20,000 if it went to final hearing. He kept saying, you need to negotiate today. Also he said that if it went to final hearing then a lot of the information would be out of date and so provided again and this could be costly. Happy to answer anything else merry if it helps. Its such a stressful time xx

Hi all, I've been reading this thread and I'm happy to hear that there's light at the end of the tunnel. I told my stbxh that I wanted a divorce in March 2020 right before lockdown. I filed for court proceedings for both children arrangement and financial remedy in August 2020. I had my first hearing for the children matters in Dec 20. We have been living in the same house but in separate rooms. It has been extremely acrimonious and the police have attended our property due to this. I honestly want this to be over quick.

At the first hearing my stbxh lied about drug use and how little my stbxh actually cared for our child. In Mar 21 I had my first hearing for the finances and most of the questions I put forward were approved by the judge. My stbxh is self employed so his accounts have been made to look out that most of his pay goes towards expenses and he claims to not be earning enough to not make the threshold to pay national insurance when in fact he is on a three figure income. I had put some questions in my questionnaire about his accounts but the judge threw it out, as they stated that I was basically asking for an audit. My stbxh missed the deadline to exchange questionnaires and when I did receive it, it was evasive and the statements we received were not provided. We have filed a schedule of deficiencies and we're waiting to see what that brings. I'm not holding my breath as we've had a laughable form e that wasn't worth the paper it was written on and the answes to the questionnaire were a joke. My stbxh has been hiding funds and feels I'm not entitled to "his funds" as I'm not a stay at home mum and I work. My solicitors next steps will be to try and get an interim hearing to force him to provide a full disclosure or our FDR won't be effective.

At our second children arrangements hearing CAFCASS provided a report where they felt our child was better suited living with me, but they stated that they worried that it would impact on our child's relationship with their father so they stated that we should have a shared care arrangement due to this in their section 7 report. The CAFCASS officer who wrote the report attended our hearing. I offered a 50/50 arrangement with alternating weekends and my stbxh refused as currently our interim arrangement he doesn't look after our child on weekends. Due to this we now have to have a final hearing in a few months time. At this second hearing, I had voiced to the CAFCASS officer that my stbxh was barely sticking to our interim arrangement and doing what he likes and going out when he was supposed to be looking after our child. The judge asked the CAFCASS officer if my stbxh had been sticking to our interim arrangement and the CAFCASS officer lied and said that it was a flexible arrangement, when it is not. The CAFCASS officer has been told to attend the final hearing and I'm hoping that cross examination will highlight the holes in their story.

My stbxh has applied for the decree absolute just to be spiteful and have some control, as this is the only control he's been able to have since I told him I want a divorce. I am worried what impact this will have, as our finances still hang in the balance.

All of you are very strong and reading your updates have kept me going.

@Chumpnomore aw that’s okay, I wish I could use one but that’s life. That’s such a lot of money for the final hearing, I pray he’ll negotiate during the FDR.
@Rainbowdropz that all sounds horrendous, I’m in the same situation where I’m not getting most of the documents I’m supposed to have but I’ve paid for a directional hearing so I’m hopeful that he’ll be ordered to send me them. Good luck with yours. I would apply for the absolute in a heartbeat but I’m worried it’ll affect the financial proceedings, does it not affect them? Is that why he’s applied for it? The nisi has been in place for a long time. I long to be divorced!!

@Merryterry it's been hell on earth honestly. I've been called every name under the sun by this excuse of a man. It's such a pain to get all the documents, how soon after you applied for a directional hearing did you get a date from the court? I'm worried that it could take to long to get a date for the directional hearing and that could push back the FDR which I'm hoping will be the end of this. I just want to be able to have some control back and to get rid of my last name asap. What my solicitor told me is that she doesn't feel it'll make much difference in my case and she's advised against me contesting it. It has an impact on me getting a widows pension if he were to die during this process and can cause issues with pension sharing. But my stbxh doesn't have a pension, I do but he's said that he doesn't want it. So it would affect a pension sharing order. It would also have an impact if the house wasn't in both our names, from what I've been told. As he has applied for it as respondent, I'll have to attend a hearing for it. I got my nisi in June, the online side of it has been straightforward, it's just the financials and children matters that he's dragged his feet on. Is your directional anytime soon? I really hope you get what you need for full disclosure. My stbxh suddenly runs a charity giving loans to friends lol.

Ah okay we have to get an actureal report for the pensions so will not apply for the absolute yet, Thankyou @Rainbowdropz

The letter ordering a directional hearing came through about 3 weeks after I applied for one. The date is another few weeks after that. I pray he is ordered to send me the documents and for no hold up to the FDR also. I’m comforted by other posters on here that there’s no reason it should be delayed again. Good luck

@Merryterry I'm really hoping you do get those documents. It's extremely painful and slow the judicial system. I feel that they never do anything about non-compliance. I'll be looking out for everyones updates too, to give me hope that one day it'll be something I laugh about.

Welcome @Rainbowdropz
It sounds a lot more complicated when you have younger children to consider. I am lucky my children are over 18. I think it's advised not to apply for the absolute until all the financial stuff is in order.
I had my nisi two years ago.. But my solicitor always said we wouldn't apply for absolute until after FDR.
@merryterry any update on the actuary report? Did you get your letter sorted?

I agree it must be messier with young children, I’m thankful our one child is over 18. @Chumpnomore the courts will decide which company to use as once again he refused to comply and put forward details in the time frame allocated... it’s a funny story though and shows his arrogance, he actually sent a slip rule notice, I had never heard of this before, telling the judge they made a mistake with the orders 😆 that shows you the sort of mentality and arrogance of the man. The judge obviously informed him he had not made a mistake and the actuarial report was required. I will confess it still makes me laugh now when I tell the story as I am confident the judge will have noted the sort of individual he is and I am hopeful he once again will have hung himself with his own rope.

Thank you @Chumpnomore . Reading your story is making me hopeful that I'll get disclosure, even it's last minute. You're very strong and I'm happy that for you it's now over. My stxbh is a narcissist and needs to control everything. This is why he applied for the decree absolute. As this is a situation he's had no control over, this is his way of trying to take back control. It's just unfortunate really.

@Rainbowdropz i completely understand. The trouble being married to a narcissist is that over time, they make you doubt yourself and you're abilities..
I never thought of myself as strong but over the last few years of being on my own and not under his narcissistic ways, i realised i am so much better off.
This forum has been such a help and everyone has their own piece of advice which together make a huge difference! Keep going, things will get better!

@Chumpnomore I think going through something as life changing as this, shows you how resilient and strong you can be. Thank you for the support and encouragement, it's much appreciated.

Good evening all, I was wondering if anyone can answer this question.
Can I insist on knowing about my exes new partners various incomes? I’m still married to him but he cohabits with his new partner. They aren’t engaged. Do I have the right to insist on knowing about all her incomes? Likewise does he have the right to know about any partner of mines incomes? Thanks

I don't think its thought of being particularly relevant. Certainly, in my court hearing, ex new partners income not even mentioned. The only relevance was that my ex is 'housed' with her already.
I don't think its a right to ask about their income because they aren't expected to contribute directly.

Thanks @Chumpnomore I had a feeling that was the case x