Is it selfish to leave a good man?

[MadridGirl]

First time post but been reading this stuff for years!

I have told my husband our 18 year relationship is over. He is having some sort of break down as a result. He has always been a very helpful and kind person. He's says he loves me and will do anything. I feel horribly responsible for his mental health.

He never shouts, has never been violent. Does his best to be good and right and kind. But he is also very anxious, moody and withdrawn. For years he has avoided deep conversations, rarely touches me (I have to explicitly say I want him to and be very encouraging) sex is less than a few times a year, doesn't have friends etc.

Very attentive to the children and a very reliable dad. Never spends on himself. Does loads of housework, very selfless but sometimes he does these things to hide from connecting. He always denied this, said it was because life is busy etc. It's true that we've had some tough experiences- but all families do... I asked him to see a counsellor with me and also told him I couldn't live life like this unless something changed. Every time I raised it he would minimise, dent, he always refused and just got so upset and offended that I had criticised our relationship, in the end up I just gave up reaching out to him.

He agreed to see a doctor and a counsellor about a year ago when I really put my foot down, but he didn't do either in the end.

He has explicitly said he doesn't believe in talking about feelings, it makes things worse for him, not better.

Now I have said that I don't want to be with him he is shocked and distressed. He's acting as though I've gone mad and that I am selfish because we have two children.

He will insist on having the children half the time. He is being very nice to me at the moment but I know it's because he isn't taking me seriously and thinks I'll change my mind. I won't. I feel that under the surface he is furious. It's taken years to get here, and I am now done. I am almost phobic about him now, I don't want to be close to him- I am so much happier when I don't have to deal with his feelings. I want to be on my own and stop carrying all his anxiety and moods. I don't want to be with an introvert, it makes me feel lonely and trapped. I am 100 percent through.

So my question is, compared to all the people here who had violent,abusive, selfish and nasty men, am I justified in doing this? How do I square what I feel I have to do, with the view that I am being selfish?

Hi @FlouryBap, it's a strange feeling, isn't it. I feel very much in limbo as no moves for one of us to move out in motion yet. We've barely seen each other due to us both travelling. He thinks I don't mean it though.
I'm feeling very lonely this week.

@DragonNoodleCake the loneliness is awful, but my prevailing thought is imagine what it would be like retired and married to him. Or sick and being “cared for” by him. I have just reread your post. You have tried v hard. I am worried I have not tried enough. I have asked him several times to organise counselling - a contrary challenge as I wanted to see if he could be arsed. In all that time any feeling leaked away and I focused on myself and the kids. I don’t want to go to counselling to save our relationship as I don’t want it anymore.

He loves the children, but I always feel he would actually just prefer if we weren’t there and he could read his book or watch tv. In company he often just falls alseep - especially with my family. He has no friends of his own and makes v little effort with his family.

Relate to so much in this thread, but that comment could've been written about my DH!

I hit breaking point a few years ago at which point he agreed to go to therapy together. It has helped, although there were many times I thought it had gone too far and I couldn't connect with him again after so many years of banging my head against a brick wall.

He's started to address many of the issues in his own life that led to him being so numb and checked out, and so determined to stay that way. So he's more available than he was and I know he's trying.

It's still hard though because in terms of emotional literacy he's like a toddler, just learning the basics after decades of being cut off. It's not the level of mutual support I wanted in my marriage. I think he thinks everything's fine tbh, while I still feel sad and lonely quite a bit of the time.

I suppose my issue is, how could I leave him after he's tried so hard to meet me half way?

I suppose my issue is, how could I leave him after he's tried so hard to meet me half way?

Because it you are not compatible - you don’t have to point the finger of blame. It’s like being buried alive - no one needs to live like that. His efforts to meet you “half way” are not sustenance enough for you and may even be exhausting and emotionally stressful for him. If you just accept you are not compatible he is free to go find someone else (and there will be someone else) who is happy with his emotional capacity. Obligation and guilt are no way to live a life.

@FlouryBap I did try, I also did the ask him to book counselling- after 18 months I knew I had to. I had to try for the kids but if I'm honest with myself by the time we had gotten to counselling I was mostly checked out and I could at least say I had tried. I honestly think 18 months ago it might have made a difference. Maybe it was good because I got to say all the things I needed to say.
Now I'm just unhappy, lonely and stuck in a house that's not my home.
DD1's behaviour to me was horrendous tonight - no surprise he didn't back me up.

In the last 5 weeks I've had, anger, mud slinging, shouting, accusations followed by tears and begging and promises - in cycles over and over. It's really unattractive

That’s why DD1 behaviour is horrendous. You need to take your children out of this toxic polluting situation - it is causing them deep emotional harm - she is acting out. He will not press the button - so you need to get on with it.

Thanks @another20 you are right.
I think I need a gin, not venturing downstairs though

I've been reading this thread with interest as 11 days ago I left my "perfect husband and Dad" and moved into a flat with shared custody of our three teenagers. After 27 years together, often feeling lonely, rejected sexually and emotionally, I finally got the courage to tell him I wanted a separation in March. We had three months together in the house which was hideous with him begging me to go to counselling. We had done this previously and I just didn't feel I wanted to even try again this time. Consequently, I can't say I've tried everything and I struggle with that at times, but overall I'm enjoying the freedom and peace of being in the flat without him. As I expected he is struggling to cope and that is difficult. The guilt of my decision is the hardest thing to live with and at times I really question myself but I think this is so rooted in the expectations for women to stay in mediocre marriages for the sake of everyone else. I had a wake up call several years ago when I was diagnosed with a condition which will mean I will be physically disabled in years to come. This has totally focused my mind and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend the rest of my life compromising on what I know I need and want from a relationship. It's not his fault, it's not mine, but I've changed and I want more. We all have a right to live and to be happy.

Watching with interest.

Jamkan29 I think you are an inspiration to us all. I've been married 30 years and have 2 teenagers but they are older so there won't be "custody" or maintenance etc.

I can't get H out of the house, I've tried every way and then finally it seems he doesn't earn enough to rent so it will have to be sold and he will have to live with me whilst the sale goes through. I cant put my youngest DD through that as she has MH issues and is very fragile so I am going to wait a bit longer.

How come you left your home though was it rented or will you have to sell up? Is your H able to afford to remain living there, and how is he struggling do you mean emotionally, financially or every which way?

In awe of you.

@DishingOutDone I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation unable to effectively separate physically. I take my hat off to women that have to stay with their partners like this, it's so difficult. I only did three months but it was the hardest three months of my married life.

I had to be the one moving out as I needed to be near the bus stop that my daughter uses to get to her new school which is 5 miles away. I am unable to drive in the dark so I needed to be in walking distance of it. We are very fortunate in that we were able to afford for me to pay for a rental property because we have paid off our mortgage. I am hoping that he will agree to sell the house so that I don't have to continue with paying rental prices and can get my own place in future.

In terms of how he's coping it's what I expected. The children tell me he's not coping that well emotionally but with me it manifests as arsey, obstructive behaviour, for example, telling me I can't enter my own house without his permission to get some of my stuff. Despite him being perfect on the outside I'm fully prepared for a shit storm to come as he is a proud man and I have damaged that monumentally by choosing to leave. The really difficult part is that we are all going on a two week holiday that was booked and paid for months before the separation. I'd do anything not to go right now but my kids would never forgive me so I'm going to have to suck it up. I'm currently writing flash cards to take with me so that I can deal with the feelings of guilt and powerlessness that he engenders in me while I'm away. This is tough but I still know I've done the right thing by leaving. I totally believe things will be better for me and my kids in the long run.

You are 110% right.

My H is the nicest person ever outside of the house, everyone is like "Aw!! Mr Dishing is PERFECT!!" and inside he can be a psycho - sometimes he'll be seemingly ordinary for a week or so then go mental over the curtains not being drawn properly. But he always stops just a little bit short of it being enough to throw him out. Does your H have any family or friends around?

I'm so pleased for you, to be so clear and be able to leave and live on your own with the kids - I shall enjoy it vicariously!! Holiday will soon be over - I take it he is ok with the kids?

Keep strong all! Today I made a step forward (a tiny one). I booked an initial consultation with a solicitor on Friday

Another one here. Told my STBEXH over a year ago I wasn't happy, and that took a lot of courage as I'd been unhappy for a very long time. He said and did nothing and I forgot I'd even brought it up! 3 months later I brought it up again but practicalities of actually splitting were discussed. This was the point he said he would go to counselling etc, anything to fix it. Far too little too late. In December I finally told him I was done. All of a sudden he was on antidepressants, has anxiety, been on a stress management course, going to have counselling for 20 year old issues he's never faced! WTF.

Part of me feels bad. But another part of me thinks he should have done something far sooner. Instead he was happy to plod along whilst I clearly got increasingly bored and frustrated and now he has a load of MH problems.

He isn't a horrible man. He isn't abusive although potentially low level emotionally to the DCs. He would make someone a good partner. Just not me.

December I finally told him I was done. All of a sudden he was on antidepressants, has anxiety, been on a stress management course, going to have counselling for 20 year old issues he's never faced! WTF.

Part of me feels bad. But another part of me thinks he should have done something far sooner. Instead he was happy to plod along whilst I clearly got increasingly bored and frustrated and now he has a load of MH problems.

@NewMe2019 this is me exactly.
I've eaten ruined this before but I begged my husband for years to get help, alone or together, he does have a lot of issues from his childhood that he needed to face as well as his anger but he just flat out refused.
Now we are living apart as a 'trial' and I'm 95% sure I'm done completely but he is going to counselling and is absolutely devastated that his past actions have led to this.
I fell so so guilty and I can feel how much pain he is in but what did he expect 🤷🏻‍♀️ I also feel a lot of outside pressure to give him another chance because people can see how hard he is working and how upset he is but this would be chance number 345, at what point do you say 'enough'?!

*eaten ruined is supposed to be mentioned 🙄

The fact you are 95% sure you are done is the point you say enough. That last 5% is just the guilt.

My STBEXH only moved out recently. It was a tough 6 months still living together! In that time I saw a slightly different side to him and a few things came out in anger (from him) that makes me think he is playing the victim a little bit so I feel less guilty.

Ultimately, we are NOT responsible for their happiness. I have to remind myself this sometimes when I feel bad. I deserve to be happy and ex can sort himself out.

It's interesting as I would suspect men who get unhappy and leave don't have these feelings of guilt about leaving a good woman. I suspect it's because we are conditioned that we should keep men happy from a young age.

@NewMe2019, @Pashola i also find myself in the same situation as STBXH began counselling when I asked for the separation. Like you I spent years suggesting it might help address some serious issues from his childhood but he refused. Part of me feels like the villain now for still going whilst he's making such an effort and this is being reinforced by others who feel I should be giving him another chance. Everyone is rallying around him as the victim in this situation. You're right I think that many women have been raised with this idea of looking after men, that it's our duty somehow, so leaving brings so much guilt. But I only have to think of my own daughter and ask myself what would I want for her. Would I insist she stay and give it another chance? Would I tell her that the grass isn't necessarily greener and she might not do better for herself? Would I tell her this is as good as it's going to get for you? Not bloody likely!!

Yes, xDH is now telling me I'm his closest friend, he's devastated, he only want to talk to me. I feel why am I responsible for him being ok? I'm devastated too, my marriage has failed and I just happened to be the one who called it done.

@NewMe2019 sounds exactly like my life! Told him in Feb I was done, well he’s certainly hit the floor and will tell anyone who will listen how this has all affected him. Not once offered to change any of the things I was unhappy about, and became a vile self centred sex addict who I actually detest now! Roll on moving out day and the start of my new beginning, the guilt does get too much some times but then he begs me to have sex with him and I remember that the relationship we have is not a normal one! Good luck ladies I love watching this thread grow with strong independent women! Oh and for the pp who says they are 95% sure I agree it’s the guilt of making the choice that’s holding you back. X

Ex told me I was his world and I knew that, one of the times he asked if there was any chance. Actually, I didn't know that. Because he never ever said that. Not once. I never knew anything about what he thought. He never gave an opinion on stuff, I drove everything. I wanted a partner (I have one now and it is very refreshing!) Not a grown up child.

He was unbelievably closed. And I always thought I was. Turns out I'm not at all. Talking to ex or trying to get information was always like trying to get blood out of a stone.

I'm relived I called it a day and haven't regretted it for a single second. It was like a weight had been lifted the day I told him.

@NewMe2019 are you me?! 😆
Honestly, most of what you say is just like my situation, especially the no opinion and information thing.
My husband also tells me I'm his world, which is nice to hear but he didn't really show it when he was so angry and gaslighting a lot of the time.

He's also a bit of a yes man, he will always say 'whatever you want to do' which sounds nice on paper but then ALL the decisions are then left up to me! Luckily he was never one to throw anything back in my face if things didn't work out, but have an opinion for goodness sake.

And trying to have a conversation can be painful, it's like I have to fish for information all the time and conversations that should take a minute end up in a 30min frustration.

He also doesn't answer questions that I ask, as in I could ask him a basic question and he'll answer something different as if he's thought 5 steps ahead in the conversation, oh and he (kind of) ignores me, so I'll say something in a conversation, not a question as such but it might still require a response and he can wait up to a minute (I've timed it) with no response, I then prompt him and he answers me, so he's heard me but he's 'thinking about what to say' apparently drives me mental 😡

Sorry, turned into a bit of a vent there

@Pashola OMG!! That's exactly what ex did!! I'd speak to him and wait and get nothing.... I'd have to say 'I've just spoken to you' and he would say he was thinking. But zero acknowledgement that he had heard me at all and I think if I hadn't pulled him up he wouldn't have bothered to answer. He left all decisions to me too and it became exhausting having to be solely reaponsible for every tiny thing.

He's now doing it by text if I've asked him something I know he won't like! And I have to text hours and hours later asking if he got my text to prompt a response. I know he got it. He's glued to his phone. But other times he's texting all conversational. It's like I'm still wondering what mood he's in and how he's going to be. Thought I'd leave that behind when he left.

Op I could have written this

For anyone thinking of leaving a good man, I’d say think hard before you do. How will you financially cope ? How will it affect children ? Where will you live ? It’s not easy you know.. there’s bills to pay,
Loneliness to cope with, who will support you? Everyone has busy lives of their own, and although they say they will be there for you, they are often not.

I’m speaking from experience, I had a good man..I would have a serious talk with him first, if you can’t find a path together then have a trial separation. Typical Divorce procedure takes over a year to finalise. Shorter if you’re only married for a short time.

My journey hasn’t ended yet. And some days I wish I stayed married.