Support thread for those divorcing against stbex wishes (2)

[mammynowanauntyIRL]

Support thread for those divorcing against their stbex original thread

DC2 is home and excited to be home. I went to get her. She wanted me to take her to school so she would not miss her dance club. Dance club was her major concern.
I must say STBXH did try to put some structure in her day. He just can't manage his toxic masculinity/ego enough to take his child to school. 'magically' or otherwise.

So glad she is home!! Brilliant news. Come back tomorrow and let us know what your next steps are for you x

I went to the school to speak with them as I suspected STBXH may call them. He did. He said DC2 is sick.

I then called 101 to speak with the police to request an escort when I go to pick DC2. But because there is no CAO in place, they cannot escort randoms. Then she was not best pleased that I have not reported STBXH for Domestic abuse. She also said that I have to give the car to STBXH, as it is his. If I do not give it to him, they would make me give the car to him.

I explained to her that re:domestic abuse that I had been in to the station to speak to the police about reporting domestic abuse. The officer I spoke to, disencouraged me. She said as I have little to no evidence, that it would be difficult to obtain a convinction/or was it bring charges to him (I have forgotten which).
I also explained that whenever I have called the police for help (999 calls), that it doesn't matter what state I am in, or what they observe or what I tell them or the fact that they are certain that he is wrong, after speaking with him, they then come back to me and say 'oh it was just a husband and wife argument' 'seems like a misunderstanding' 'this is probably better between you two'. I told her I don't have faith that the police could keep DC and myself safe.

I later got a call from another police officer, I was taken through the questionnaire again.
And again STBXH does not trigger on the abusive scale... for reasons like some of the questions are not broad enough and for reasons that questions like 'has he isolated you from friends and /or family?' 'has he hit you?' are a No because though he kept trying too, he did not succeed.
Apparently, he has to actually have succeeded in his act!
Other questions like 'is he financially abusive?' have to be yes (as in 100% of the time).. and not yes, he is/has been financially on several occasions.. e.g 50% of the time.
So officially, STBXH is not abusive. That questionnaire always makes me cry.

She said that anytime STBXH displayed controlling behaviour to myself and/or the children, I should call them and log it. That it would create a picture.
She said the car is a civil issue, my decision to make. That the police will not be getting involved in that. She advised getting a CAO.

The domestic abuse service, advised getting a CAO. They advised I wait till I get DC2 back then call children's services, tell them what happened and explain to them that I would be withholding contact. Then afterwards, tell STBXH that I will be withholding contact, forcing him to go through the courts.

The thing is, the thought of courts, CAFCASS etc brings nothing but fear into me. My fears - would I be able to cope with the process, would it be too much for me, what if STBXH gets main custody of the children, what if I regret going down this route, what if if I go down this route and that opens the way for him to keep taking me back to court for various stuff.
Some irrational fears there I know but I really have these fears. And the fears are crippling.

So I am stuck with a full busy brain.. Do I want to withold contact? Truth is I don't. Nothing to do with my fears but more to do with I can't do that to DC and I can't do that to STBXH. It doesn't feel fair to me. And there is no safety issue to be concerned about (while his cousin is away) .
But I recognise that we need something official in place. And maybe something that says that cousin can't be around DC.

Trying to think what to do... What to do....

The second police officer said, that from my explanations with my answers that he is definitely abusive but she recognises that the questionnaire is not robust enough.

At the moment, i can't see if that has much bearing on anything. To me, it only matters if it will have bearing on the CAO.
Not to keep him from DC but would serve for him to check himself if he realises how it can affect him for e.g in things like how much of access he can have to DC.
And hopefully that would lead to him checking his behaviour towards DC and.... maybe towards me too.

Actually, picking DC2 was uneventful. Pretty straightforward. He didn't ask for the car. I did not go with it.
On the way home, I got to learn he had told her so many horrible things about me. I just kept quiet and listened. I could tell actively defending or refuting the lies would be detrimental, so i didn't say much. She is torn between her parents. She is hurting, so I let it go. I will over time hopefully be able to disprove them.
I did say 'well, that's not true. We can talk about it later. I know you just want to get home'
I felt a pain in my heart because she appeared to believe him. I actually cried when I got home to the privacy of my room. My heart hurt.

But I know that right now with him being the scarcer seen parent, so the more special one (and the whole natural oedipus complex thing does not help) I just have to be patient. I know she will get it one day. I know that day is possibly a very long way off. So I only hope that she continues to able to talk with me about stuff.
In the meantime, I have to learn how to manage this hurt because I can sense there will be more coming.

@clpsmum, hi.
I wrote you a message that was with the post that never showed up.

I am really sorry you are going through this. And you did good to reach out. We can get comfort and support from each other.

I totally identified with you when you talked about what his possible plans for Christmas would be and he responded by getting nasty causing you to become a nervous wreck.
I was there with you in that moment. It is really horrible isn't it?
And it seems to go on and affect other things... all of a sudden you can't plan anything because you have not got an adult answer or should I say a normal human answer... and you can't go back to ask again because because.
You find yourself in limbo and you don't get an apology, you don't understand why that reaction and you start dreading the kids asking questions or talking about Christmas.

I am really sorry that you are going through this. Please, come on here to get support when you need. It seems a lonely trek. And it is, but having the lovely people on here can make a difference.

I seem to have written novels and novels again.
So sorry.

I have reported the spam post BTW...

@Itistimeandiamscared yet again you have shown immense strength. I wish you did not have to keep digging so deep, that there were a little bit of respite! But you really are so so strong, gladiator strong!
Do not apologise for writing a novel - you needed to get it all out. I do think it is worth keeping a copy somewhere of what you have written though as no doubt you will need to remind yourself of what just happened in the future.

I am so glad that DC2 is home and that she is happy to be. I think you handled the fact that she had been told lots of untrue things from STBXH really well. I was thinking, he behaves like a child, so the response can be similar to what you would respond if a child had been "telling tales" (that is exactly what it is!) It sounds as though you just listened, stated that things were not true, offered to talk later, and did not try to contradict everything - that would have been so much for your poor DC to have to process. I think you did so well with that, because yes, that must hurt so much.

Just last week I was talking to someone who got divorced around 10 years ago. Her DS is now 16ish. All the way through, her EXH and his new wife have said this, that and the other about her, slagging her off to her DS etc. She did exactly like you, just worked hard to disengage from it, and deal with it unemotionally. Her DS said to her just last week, that it really does his head in when they slag her off, that he knows non of it is true and that it just makes him not want to be around them - so you are right, your DC will absolutely 'get it'.

It is just horrible that they have to go through all this pain and confusion (and you do too) in the meantime.

I am glad you involved the police and gathered some information, even though it is disappointing (and mega out-dated!) that they rely on this questionnaire thing that just does not cut it.

You sound overwhelmed with it all. I think you can probably take a breather for a day or two now - at least i hope so? When are DC next going to his? Just take a moment to ground yourself again It is still worth a post on 'Relationships' I think, because there are so many on there who have walked this path.

It does sound as though you need something formal in place like a CAO, although I can understand your fears. It would remove his ability to control you and/or manipulate the DC so badly though. You could offer it to him as a positive thing. Some order to the arrangements. He would not get to be the main carer, not in a million years.
But a painful and difficult road I think.
Perhaps the next step would be some information gathering on that - maybe WA or your solicitor?

Take a moment to be kind to yourself though please. You are important and above all else, the DC need you to be well, everything else can wait a little bit xx

Also, my mother was a bit like that - always slagging my dad off (my dad was resident parent - nothing to do with courts, it was just the way it was).
As above with my friend's DS, it used to really annoy me. My dad was amazing and I only ever felt defensive for him when she said bad things. He was very unemotional about dealing with it all - just acted as though it did not bother him because it was not true - and of course his behaviour and the fact he was so solid and consistent and good at parenting disproved her time and time again. Even as a kid, I could see that she was chaotic and projecting her own inadequacies (I just would not have known that's what it was exactly). I did not like being around her - but at least my home really really was a 'home' and a safe haven that did not include her.

@Itistimeandiamscared - just rushing off out but wanted to ask the domestic abuse people you are calling is that the National Domestic Violence helpline? Because if not, please give them a try and go through everything you have said here, its the best thing I ever did as they were able to give such good advice, they do a "questionnaire" too and my H scored high on their list for coercion and as a high risk of violence. It just got my head in exactly the right place to deal with the solicitor. Please do think about giving them a try if you haven't already.

@Tiddleypops, thank you so much. Your post has really helped me today.
@DishingOutDone, was my previous local domestic service. I would call the national domestic service tomorrow.

I have just this very minute received this 👇 from STBXH.

-----
Good Afternoon itistimeandiamscared, as DC3 was unable to spend last weekend with me, I would like to have both DC2 and DC3 this weekend. I am willing to collect them Friday around 7 - 7:30pm.

When are you giving me my car back?
------

It is my weekend to have DC.

He is not aware that I spoke to the police and domestic abuse service. So he is unaware of all what was my experience yesterday.

Is he actually thinking that I would say yes?
Surely, he does not... So, does he have something planned? Am I running crazy here? Is this normal? Is this a trap?
I am seriously surprised... confused... in disbelief.

www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk

Don't reply till you have spoken to them, its just "feeding" him ifyswim.

I agree with @DishingOutDone then speak to the helpline people first before you reply. This car thing is really clouding things, but the point about the DC - I think this confirms the need for a legal arrangement re the kids
@Itistimeandiamscared I really feel for you.

@clpsmum how are you doing today?

@user1486131602, @Dishing, @Tiedupwithstrings
How are you all doing?

I'm reading the updates from some of you and realising that my H aspires to be like your H's but isn't quite there ifyswim. He is not quite so overtly abusive generally.
Saying that, one thing I've been experiencing since I started recovering, is flash backs. I remembered he once tried to strangle me. He has not been violent for a number of years, but now I'm remembering how bad it was at times. And of course he is an alcoholic... So his 'issues' are just different.

I am still feeling very sad. Last week I was feeling strong and accepting of the situation, despite the sadness. This week - I feel angry again and less accepting. There is covert stuff going off - like smothering DS. I have to come in and break up the smother party because it's bed time or time to go to school or whatever. It's really pissing me off.
But I'm trying to rise above it.
I'm back to feeling like this is never ending. It isn't. We will get there. We are getting there. But it's just so frustrating.

He's got a new gadget, yet he 'can't afford' to contribute a penny towards the bills or DS expenses

Hi @Tiddleypops, I am so sorry that it feels never-ending. That must be so difficult.
It may not seem like it but change is coming, very slowly but surely.
I understand about the feeling sad but being accepting of the situation and then still feeling sad but getting angry and less accepting. Our feelings, emotions, thoughts are constantly on this roller coaster ride.
It is a relentless path. It is a lonely path. And getting these emotions out and having someone understand you, is helpful.
Does Al-Anon do that for you?
@Tiddleypops, you know you are gladiator strong. Like seriously. So hold on, in there. Things are changing, this time will come to an end.

Thank you @Itistimeandiamscared. Yes Al-anon really does help. Like you say, this is a lonely road.
I am so lucky in that I have some really solid friendships, but one of my dearest, oldest friends asked me a few weeks if I had my eye on another man at all (I mean WTF?!) and when my nisi was pronounced she said hooray, time to celebrate - despite the fact I'd already mentioned that I felt more like grieving. BUT in Al-anon they really do 'get it', they completely understand.

Yes it's a roller-coaster, and it's good to acknowledge that and to know there are ups and downs and that even if today is a bad day then tomorrow might be better 😊
But jeez, I'm fed up with it all!

How are things @Itistimeandiamscared?

@Tiddleypops, I have just been trying to survive each day.
Each morning I seriously think this will be the day I give up and just stay in bed for the foreseeable future.
Yesterday, It took a lot to get out of that bed and join the living. I got to work and this overwhelming feeling of despair came over me. I sat in the car and really cried, noisy tears scrunched up face crying. For almost an hour. I got in late. I did my best and got through the day.

Today, I spoke with my solicitor (handling my divorce) . I then got of the phone and felt very helpless. My solicitor feels a child contact arrangement order in my situation would be useless because XH will/may ignore it. The solicitor is also concerned that he may ask that the children live with him. And that he will insist on it. My solicitor says he is a lunatic and as such it is a difficult situation to be in. That I should just give him the dates he can see the children /discuss with him about a schedule, put my head down, be strong and that things will calm down eventually.

The thing is discussions never bring about a resolution. Giving him the dates he could see the children... done this before, it just got laughed at. Moreover, we are already in a routine that he dictated and he is trying to flip it again. If I now say, hey let's sort dates for next 6 months, what dates do you want, it would be giving him an opportunity to purposely make impossible demands /requests and when they can not be met, he will then act out and do something and again it becomes more things he is adding to the list of things I have done and I have made him do.

I feel like I am still trapped. I was trapped in the marriage. And now the marriage is over, I still feel trapped! I got off the phone and again I proper cried. I feel so alone. So lost. I kinda trust my solicitor but I feel like I am still in the same position I was before I spoke with them.

Another solicitor, advised me to go the non-contact route and go for a child contact arrangement order. A 1 hour consultation. I am not thier client but I have sought advice from them a couple of times.

My mind is scrambled.
And again, I am back to feeling heavily fatigued.

Just catching up with everyone's posts!

@Itistimeandiamscared, I am so sorry to hear about your week and all the stress you must be going through. It is shocking to hear that the police use such a restrictive questionnaire. He is CLEARLY abusive. I think your message to him was very clear and firm but also very reasonable. He is deliberately ignoring what you've said. Please don't listen to him. Listen to WA and the DV helpline people. Your support group also sound amazing.

@Tiddleypops, thanks for asking after me and for the tip about WhatsApp. I have just exported an entire conversation thread as I didn't realise it could just disappear like that.

I totally relate to the rollercoaster feeling. It's exhausting. I've had another up and down week, but the meditation does seem to be helping me sleep and is keeping me slightly more grounded. Al anon is also incredibly helpful and makes you feel less alone doesn't it? Along with all the lovely people on this thread ♥️

@Tiddleypops, I hope the smothering doesn't get you down too much. It sounds familiar and I find it maddening and also draining. It is hard having to be the consistent and often business like one isn't it? I'm trying not to be such a martyr but I don't want the DC's to lose out because of silly behaviour on H's part. Nevermind, one step at a time. I think I need to find a way to have better quality time with DC's as H gets a lot of this and I don't. Not quite sure how to do this yet though.

Shattered today. PMT on top of everything else makes for a very on the edge woman 🤪😬🤯. Hoping some rest will help.

@user1486131602, you sound well and like you're making good progress.

@clpsmum, sorry you are going through the mill too. Sounds like you are doing what you can in a very tough situation. Focus on you and the DC's as much as you can. 🤗

@itistime, sending you strength and thinking of you.

Oh @Itistimeandiamscared, have a handhold and a virtual hug 🤗 and a gin and a cake and a hot chocolate with Baileys I am so sorry. It sounds like you needed that big cry, you are in such a difficult situation.

I'm far from an expert, but I do sort of nose in lots of threads where people are in similar difficulties, and honestly, your divorce solicitor sounds completely wrong There's a thread on Relationships where the exH is really bonkers and abusive etc and a CAO was the ONLY way to stop him behaving like your STBXH. You can call police, you can call SS, you can take him to court if he mucks you around if you have an arrangement in place. Why does your solicitor think he'll get the kids with him full time? That is extremely unlikely from what I've seen. He doesn't have them now, so why would the courts suddenly decide that? No. I just can't see how that would be a thing. They other solicitor sounds much more realistic.

You have come a long long long way, please remember that. You have shown immense courage. The way will become clear xxx

Itsmeandimscared
Get on to women’s aid, rights for women, gingerbread and anyone else you can think of.
You need to stand up to him or this life will be harder than the one you left. I KNOW how hard that is.
I’m empty. But he’s not winning. Not on his terms, not this time.
All you other ladies will catch up on the weekend, Ive started the abuse counselling, had my flu jab and ExH been here again. So not sleeping eating or making sense! Time to retreat and recover!
Love and hugs

Oh @Itistimeandiamscared, I just read your last thread. No wonder you feel fatigued. I must admit that given the choices those two solicitors have given I'd be drawn to the idea of no contact in your situation. It just feels like otherwise he'll be endlessly messing you around. But that is just a gut reaction and not based on experience. Only you really understand the situation. What do WA say? I hope you get a good night's sleep and things might feel clearer tomorrow. 🤗🤗🤗

Oh yes @Itistimeandiamscared did you manage to speak to the helpline people. I think you might get some more suitable advice from them. They have experience of this type of situation. It sounds like your solicitor doesn't.

@Tiedupwithstrings gosh our situations are so so similar. My H gets so much more down time with DS. With me working full time, I spend half the rest of the time catching up on jobs and other stuff at home. H can do as he pleases because he isn't working. I think that adds to the smothering thing. DS is all he has really at the moment.

I hope your get a good rest over the next few days x

H's heart condition symptoms have worsened. He's been told to stop drinking altogether. He hasn't had a drink for a 3 days but there are still beers in the fridge, you know, just in case 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️ He's also told me he's trying to get another job now. But I can't help but feel he's up to something.

I'm so glad you are finding Al-anon helpful. Some weeks I count down the days! A friend of mine is gravely ill very suddenly this week. He is in intensive care 😔. And I heard an old friend died from liver failure caused by alcoholism recently (I did not know he was a drinker). All this and my H's heart thing, and the risks he is taking by still drinking (which is inevitable despite a few days off), it is all getting jumbled up together in my head. I know I am doing OK though. I'm maintaining detachment... Not particularly elegantly this week, but I'm I'm not embroiled in his drama and that is so much of a relief.

Oh that's tough @Tiddleypops, hearing about other people who've suffered with the illness too. It must be so hard to watch your h deteriorate, but I'm glad to hear you are detaching, however you manage it.

So H has agreed to see a mediator, which is a good step. I also found out that he's been seeing someone else, not because he told me but because a message popped up on his phone that was clearly not from a friend. I don't normally check up on things by the way, but he'd left it on a counter and I'd gone to help my dc and saw it flash up! Not a very nice way to find out. I guess that's why he's been so reasonable lately. And here I was thinking I shouldn't even think about dating for a long time yet. A because I'm not ready and B out of respect for him... I have to say though in a way I'm grateful as I feel a release from the guilt I was feeling at ending it- I kept feeling really sorry for him and wondering how he would cope!! Life has a funny way of working...

I suppose I can't really say I'm divorcing against stbex wishes now! But I might just linger for a little while longer on this thread if that is ok. I have found it so much comfort!

@Itistimeandiamscared, how are you?

How is everyone else? @RoseMartha, hope you're having a better time than last week?

To everyone I read the last night thread and send you all 🤗🤗🤗

@Tiedupwithstrings thank you for asking.

Things have been worse. Threats have been worse. Verbally abused me in front of the kids who in turn have been horrendous to me after watching h!

Just finished crying actually, feel bit better for it. One dc has just been stamping about and slamming doors at half 11, because I accidentally woke her up by cleaning my teeth. Called me a f-ing selfish bitch. I had a bad night sleep last night as events from a phone call from h left me second guessing myself all night so have felt knackered all day. So the name calling set me off in tears and the dc told me not to be so

f- ing sensitive and was glad I was upset bc I deserved it. Then came into my bedroom bc needed me to give a hug. But no apology for behaviour!

All I do is for them and it just gets thrown back in my face, so painfully hard.

Dont know what has happened to the font i cant fix it..