Support thread for those divorcing against stbex wishes (2)

[mammynowanauntyIRL]

Support thread for those divorcing against their stbex original thread

@Tiddleypops, @Tiedupwithstrings, thank you very much.
I feel I did what is right for me and to stand up for myself. He treats me less than something beneath his shoe.

He actually sent me a message yesterday asking what time I am bringing the Car & DC. There was such assurance of obedience. And when I did not drop off the car, he spoke to me like an errant child. He acted like he couldn't believe I would dare not do as he had said!

He does not see women as people with rights & feelings. I am not a person in his eyes. There is no regards, no respect, no value for me. As much as I have come to realise that that is the reality and I have worked on the hurt that that brings, it still hurts. But the hurt gets less each day. One day, hopefully, it would be all gone and it will be pity I feel for him.

On another hand, it has been worryingly quiet from his side. I expected a deluge of messages demanding his car but nothing. I feel very uneasy. I know him and I know he is fuming and will not tolerate subordination from me of all people.
Am I driving myself mad trying to think of what he may do? Or am I trying to be prepared?

Sorry. So many typo errors.

Still nothing.

Any update yet? Thinking of you. Remember how strong you are. I can imagine the not knowing what he is up to is making you very anxious. Can you distract yourself somehow? Go for a walk or go out anywhere really? Do some chores, watch a good film?

Thinking of you @Itistimeandiamscared

Thanks @Tiddleypops, @DishingOutDone...
I eventually did some meditation. I had DC1 & DC3 at home with me. Both refused to stay at STBXH.
He told DC3 he would be coming to get them when he comes. But he did not turn up and he did not call.
I called DC2 to say good night, DC3 then asked to speak with him. DC3 asked why he didn't come to get them as promised. He just said 'No I would not, your mum can drop you off'. DC3 now asked me to do that. I explained it is a bit of a distance and is already late.
I messaged him and said if he had changed his mind about coming to pick DC3, he should have communicated that. That it was not fair on DC.

This was his reply. 👇
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Hi, itistimeandiamscared,
Once more you have attempted your emotional manipulation on the young children.
You were meant to drop the car off yesterday. It is not yours when i asked about the car you blanked me. Can you please return the car.
It was understood you would drop DC3 off today. You had the car.
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Despite the fact that I have had years of his never directly addressing the issue at hand, of him never accepting what he has done or said. You would think I should be used to it. But no... I read that text and immediately I got confused, lightheaded, disoriented. I was absolutely certain he said he was coming. I know what I heard but immediately I felt crap. Am I manipulating DC?
Immediately I wondered if I was wrong in what I heard.

Inspite of what I know I heard, I found myself listening to the recording of the drop-off over and over again. He can be clearly heard stating twice he would be coming. That was after he had asked for the car a couple of times.
I feel so annoyed with myself that I need such proof to ensure my mental health. To assure myself that I am not going mad. This was what the entire marriage was like. Without all the other forms of abuse. He would say things and then deny. Do things and then deny. But it was not just a denial, somewhere in the denial it would become my fault and how I had done something bad to cause the whole thing. Every. Single. Time.

I had 16 years of this. Everyday was spent wondering if I was going crazy, then wondering why I was such a crap person, a crap mother, a useless wife, a selfish mother, I wondered why I was a waste of space. You will think I should be immune now. Why do I still fall apart even though I know better now?

It's called gaslighting and it's crazy making (I know you know this).
You had 16 years of someone telling you you were wrong the think the sky is blue, while looking at an obviously blue sky - that person was so adamant the sky was orange you stopped being able to trust your own eyes and mind. Day after day.

The response to his message (not necessary to actually send to him).
Re the children - no, you did not manipulate them.
(Hey, even if you had made a mistake, or misunderstood something, then you would have just gone 'oh yes, I see now, I misunderstood'.)
And re the car - you need it at the moment. That is all.

Remember, he lives in an alternative reality. I know he is impossible to deal with. I know the falling apart feeling. Just try to ground yourself. Be factual on everything. You ARE getting better at dealing with him. You ARE getting quicker at seeing through him. Each time you feel disarmed, just take a moment to find your feet before you do anything.

Thank you @Tiddleypops. I really appreciate your words.

I did not reply. I don't think I have too. I know what really happened and can prove it.
The car is in his name so could say it is legally his. Morally & financially it is not his. He does not even need it for work. He is only trying to take it off me because he can. He takes the train, he can't drive in...lots of traffic plus actually there is no parking.
Dealing with someone like him who lives in an alternate universe is really difficult. After a few years of marriage, it got to the point where I felt like I was trapped in a bottle and I am screaming and no one can hear.
With his text I felt that feeling creeping over me again.

I worry every day for DC.
I don't know what to do to help DC because he is doing exactly the same thing to them.

Duriing the summer, there was an incident were his cousin (a grown woman in her late 30s) said she would slap DC2 across the face for calling DC3 the name we have always used. STBXH & said cousin & all his family want DC3 called by a different name. DC3 was present when this happened.
STBXH has convinced DC (including DC2) that DC2 was not threatened by his cousin rather DC are upset for being told off for doing something wrong. He has also got them to call DC3 by the name his family want. He has convinced them that that is the right thing to do because women can't give children names when they are born. And also because whenever they call DC3 with the name I gave DC3, they stab him in the heart.
It is a continuous drip feed of his twisted way of thinking. And some of it is taking root.

He really lives in an alternate universe and I worry for my children.
DC2 had a chat with STBXH to tell him that STBXH has changed and has also changed towards them (DC) , that it seems like he does not love them anymore. DC2 said to him that there is a distance growing between them and they are hurting. They really would like him to be close to them again. To laugh with them and smile at them.
STBXH's response to that was to get angry and say 'there is a lot going on between your mum and I that you don't know about'.

DC2 just casually asked on Wednesday if it is true that they don't have a choice and they have to go visit STBXH whether they want to or not.
I asked why, what's happening. DC2 said going there is difficult. That STBXH just leaves them to it till his mum gets there and she does all the cooking for them and showering DC3. That STBXH is always angry and when DC2 tried to chat with him about how the kids feel he no longer loves them that his response was about you and him mummy. I am trying to tell him about me and him and that I miss him, that we (DC) miss him but he would just shut me down and say this is your mum's fault.

How could I have got it so wrong? I am not perfect by any means but how could I gotten my children this type of person as a father.

Isn't a normal response to decide to try and do better, make your children feel loved? Isn't a normal response be one where you reassure your child?

I also worry that this drip feed of how bad I am would one day turn DC against me.
DC are strange... It doesn't matter how much you do to love them, protect them, make sure they are alright, their head can always be turned. And his is the petty-minded, patient, vindictive type.

Is there anything I could do be doing to practically to support my children - psychologically and mentally

@Itistimeandiamscared - this is awful but I have no advice, I think you are managing amazingly, your poor DC .

Do you rely on the car for work/taking DC to school - is that one of the reasons why he is after it (apart from to be a dick)? Are you still trying to sort out financial stuff with him?

Hi, @DishingOutDone, Yes, financials not yet done.
Yes, I use the car for work and the kids.

Without the car, getting to work becomes this hour and half long trip of multiple changes either 3 different buses or one train ride & 2 bus rides or one bus ride & 2 train trips.

I have really struggled today. Really struggled. I found myself unable to cook, unable to concentrate on playing with my youngest. I could feel myself slowly breaking down.

My DSis sent out a short notice message this morning to mark the birthday of one of her DC. I had to struggle to organise my frame of mind. And to get myself organised. That involved a few more tears of anxiety and bewilderment, I felt I was not in control of myself. Like I was unable to stop myself spiraling into a feeling of despair and weakness.
I ended up having a good cry that came out of nowhere. I felt a bit better afterwards.
I went for the birthday celebrations and put on a good front.
I am now back home feeling exhausted. And seriously trying not to run away. DC1 & DC3 are at DS's.

DC2 is still with him. I have no idea if he will bring DC2 back or if he is expecting me to come and pick up.

@Itistimeandiamscared one thing that has just struck me is that he said "Once more you have attempted your emotional manipulation on the young children." Given everything in your last post, that is absolutely classic projection!! HE is manipulative and yet he accuses you of being so.

I can see that all this is a terrible worry re the DC . Do not worry that he will convince them you are bad. Honestly, kids see you for who you are because your are genuine and honest and kind. They will eventually see him for the horrible person he is though.

I wonder if it would be worth putting your own thread on here or even on the Relationships board which is a bit busier, specifically about how to deal with him manipulating and lying and twisting things with the DC 🤔 There may be some users who could share there experiences?
I too worry about this in the future. I don't think my STBXH would be quite so manipulative. Yes, he'll slag me off, undermine me and all that (he does that re the mother of his older children*), but I don't think he'd go as far as all the gaslighting and lying, like yours.
*BTW the older children just disengage when he bathers on about their mum. They really are fed up with listening to it. His oldest barely sees him anymore because he is sick of all the BS that comes out of his father's mouth! I strongly suspect that your DC will feel the same. He is alienating them (and of course projecting that onto you). I hope you got sorted re dc2. I'm thinking of you

He is holding onto DC2. He would not drop her off until I bring the car to him.
She has school tomorrow.

@Itistimeandiamscared - have you got a solicitor?

I suggest you let him keep DC2, but notify the school in the morning what has happened. You need that car, and its an asset of the marriage. Not returning a child after contact is a whole new ball game. You need to get some advice tomorrow - is there a contact arrangement order in place?

Hi @DishingOutDone, no child contact arrangement. But I think, I will be getting one done now.
I don't want to give in to his bullying... but I worry how DC2 is feeling. Because DC2 would be worrying about school but is scared of STBXH so would not say anything or even cry that she wants to go to school. She will keep it all in and then release all her emotions when she gets home.
He is saying I would be the one to blame if she does not get to school tomorrow.
Yes I am contacting solicitors tomorrow. I am thinking of speaking with social services too. I will also speak to the school.

If DC2 misses school tomorrow because of this (DC2 is aware of what is happening),
Would that affect her psychologically?
Would she think that I don't care... didn't care? Would she think that I abandoned her?

Hi @Tiddleypops, thank you. That is actually great advice. I will do that.
I am unable to focus or organise my thoughts regarding starting a thread at the moment. But I will do it.
It is actually great advice. Thank you.

Itsmeandimscared:

Remember.....step away from the chaos!
All the things he’s doing and blaming you for are part of a narcissistic persons actions. It’s called deflecting, and projecting.

You are winning, because he is ramping up the pressure! Manipulating the kids is not a good idea, print and show his texts to your solicitor. The police can do a welfare check on your child while your STBXH is keeping her! I would call them, it will put the shits up him, they don’t like to be caught out or look like the villain! I suspect your child would be returned ASAP!

I haven’t been posting as I have been using my time to collect all things records etc for the Tax Credits people and the solicitor. I have had no contact from ex and I’m happy if it stays that way. Haven’t heard from dd either but her bestie let me know that’s she ok. I’m filled with trepidation and excitement about my future, but that’s what it is, mine!
It’s takes a while to get to here I’m about 9 months in, seeing him still has an effect on me, and not a good one. So I don’t.

Stop worrying about him. Just worry about you and your little family, I know how hard it is, I understand how you feel, but don’t let him ‘take’ anything else from you emotionally.
You need that strength and resolve,
I just let mine twaddle on, and used it to fuel me.
The nastiest words were the best, it made me so angry, It was like rocket fuel!

Have you changed any documents for the car?
If financials aren’t done yet, then it’s not settled who owns it!
And another thing, since you had to move on and he’s still in the house, tell him he can have the car back when he moves out!

This is your time.
One day at a time
Love and hugs

Thank you @user1486131602, so good to hear from you. I have been hoping you are okay. So glad you are.

He moved out of the home. I have also now moved away. Financials not done. I could not change the documents. They will need to start a fresh contract. He will also need to sign off on it.

I come back to the thing he said about you manipulating the kids... WTF does he think withholding DC2, against her will, so she can't go to school, to try and bully you into giving him the car is then?! Extremely manipulative! @user1486131602 is right, the car is a marital asset for now, but that is almost beside the point. This is about DC.

Agreed, get onto the solicitor. You cannot deal with this without support. Also, yes, call social services. Definitely.
I was advised that, even if they do not act straight away, at least there will be a case open. It will show you have done all you can. Remind me how how DC2 is? I'm just wondering if old enough to decide to not see their father at all. I definitely agree there now needs to be a legal arrangement re the kids. He's showing what he is capable of. Even once the car thing is settled, there will be something else and then something else. Time to call in the reserves, get the official people on the case. He cannot bully them.

You've got this @Itistimeandiamscared 💪 What a tough time. But his behaviour will look appallingly bad to a judge, to social services and to the kids too! Trust that you are going the right way. Everything you are doing is with good motives, remember that. You are in the thick of it and it's hard to see, but you are so so strong.

Thank you.
DC2 is 9. I am on a long day shift today... I would not be able to do all that I have to do from work (SS, solicitors, school etc). Trouble is, I am on long days throughout the week.
I don't know what to do.

If I don't go to work today, do I go and get her? There's no need not going to work and then leaving her there.

If I go to work and he gets her to school, do I still call SS?

If I go to work and he does not get her to school, I know what to do.

So many questions. All running through my mind.

I feel inclined to go to work. And let it be clear what he will do.
Also I have missed a lot of work days because of the things he keeps throwing at me and sometimes I mentally struggle to juggle it all.

If I go to pick her, he could always say he would have taken her to school eventually.

Message I sent him yesterday evening 👇

Hi.
It is 7:46pm. When are you dropping DC2 off? She has got school tomorrow.

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His reply 👇

Thank goodness you know DC2 has school tomorrow. So when are you picking DC2 up and dropping off my car.

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My reply 👇

DC2's school attendance is independent of whether you or I have a car or not.

I always drop the kids off at yours and you drop them back at mine. Are you refusing to drop DC2 off at mine and ensure DC2 gets to school because I will not let you take the car off me??!!

Could you ensure that DC2 is at school tomorrow. DC2 's school starts at 8:45am.

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His reply at 20:30hrs 👇

Continue making up things as you go along.
The arrangement had always been the children were dropped off with the car. You chose not to drop off the car with no prior warning this weekend. It is the seond time you have done that.
You decided to move, you took the children out of their schools without agreeing it with me. Now you are refusing to return my car and are expecting me to magically get the children to yours.
Stop using the children as bargaining chip, they are the ones hurting and suffering the consequences. You knew perfectly well that i wasn't dropping them off today, so what is the pretence about?

This is the last text i will discuss about the matter.
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Again reading his last message just made me feel dizzy. So many lies.
But I am just concerned about DC2.

I think this will be a defining moment. Which I think is necessary. I don't want DC2 to be worrying or anxious.. but at the same time this man needs someone who is a bigger bully.

I have always been scared of going down legal route mainly due to finance also due to the fact he is a very convincing liar, he is well spoken and always unruffled. People meet him and then start telling what a nice person he is.

I am always scared that I would not be believed.

He can't magically get DC2 to mine but he wants to take the car off me and expects me to magically ferry the kids around and get to work and also get them to his on his weekends.

Does she have her school things?
Your messages to him are very consistent, they are to the point, they are level. Well done!
His messages are not. They are all over the place.

It's all documentation that you will need later (if it's on an app like WhatsApp he can delete it and it goes from your phone too so make sure it's screenshotted).
I agree with your inclination to go to work. I'm not sure what else you can do immediately. You could come home if needs be later.
Do what you can today, with regard to solicitor and SS but it might not be all of it. If dc2 does not get to school though I would call the police for a welfare check. And of course social services. He will not come out of that looking good at all.

I think he'll get get to school though. He likes to bully you. He would be scared of the consequences of keeping her off school though.

Remember @Itistimeandiamscared, you are feeling fearful but you are also being very very courageous. If you did not have fear you would not need courage.