Divorce advice - DC at uni, long marriage

[Time4change2018]

Hi.
Long time lurker looking for some realistic impartial advice as my sister is filling my head with ideas based on her divorce 10+ years ago and i need to know realistically what I may or may not get.
Background... married 25 years in my mid 50s... he moved out around Christmas last year. Before that had been on sofa/ spare room for 2 years so. Technically moved in with OW but we'd been all but seperated for years.
I worked before 2 x Dcs came along, hairdresser. Didn't work again until DCs were in secondary school.... he would have preferred me to work sooner and can see over the years this has caused resentment. Work pt now in term time role. DCs now at uni, youngest starting this term. When he moved out he said he'd continue all financial arrangements (mortgage, all bills and household allowance) while dc at home before uni but now this is changing I know things are going to change.
So I'm worried what will happen and how will I cope without the house money, he has said he'll give funds to DCs directly to help with uni living. Anyone been through similar and can give me some thoughts.
House is almost paid off but no way will I get a mortgage on my wage or age so feeling a little anxious. He will have a good pension having worked 30+ years for a good national company in managerial role. Ideally like to keep house so DCs have home to come back to on holidays etc
Thank you

Especially as the youngest 2 are only just 18 and will be at university for 5 years.

I got divorced when my eldest two daughters were young . My ex paid maintenance and the mortgage until the youngest turned 18. That gave me time to study and re-enter the workforce and can keep the house.
I always advice women to be independent regardless of how strong their marriage is, things can change .

It sounds as though you are able to have a reasonable conversation with him.

I would pose the question to him "If the marital home is sold now where will the DC live in the uni holidays and when they graduate. What is going to be the emotional impact on them when their family home is gone?"

It could be that you share the costs for a few more years before selling and you both then buy a home with a spare bedroom each do the DC have somewhere to go. You could take in a Monday-Friday lodger in the small room so DC have to share when they come back...

I think your starting pointing with H is that the DC are way off being financially independent and is he expecting you to still house them and how does he expect you to do that? You could ask for another year of his support before house goes on the market for you to get more sorted??

The DC do need to be told that the house will be sold at some point whilst they are at uni but nothing has been decided yet, give them time to get used to it as well as you

@ophelialovescats I agree it’s in women’s own interests to support themselves - and for men to support themselves too.

My position is that as a woman who has saved for my kids to go to uni, I now face losing half that. Otherwise, I am able to support them - in under 18 and one over.

But there is a real threat to my DS’s studies if his father takes that money.

Ex has a job of his own but I argues that I, as higher earner, must buy him a 4-bed house. Kids are with me full-time.

Time4

I really think you have no choice but to change. You will have to support yourself financially as no one else will. Those you care for and run around after will have to manage without you.

To SimplyPut

Stepdaughters University costs were paid entirely by myself even though her mother was working. Sons CTF is paid into by myself and grandparents. Sons mother pays nothing.

As others have ready said settlements are based on NEEDS.

You need to get a good solicitor who will sort out what you are entitled to.

I think there is a slight mis-understanding here re - supporting children at uni. There was a court case where a child at uni took his father to court to continue financial support, and he won. The legal precedent is that parents are still responsible for children’s costs thru tertiary education. My partner provides some financial support to his 2 during uni, that obligation stops when they graduate. For my two, it was slightly different. They applied for loans/grants based on their father’s income only, got greater proportion of funding, so I didn’t need to add anything directly, tho I did provide financial support, holiday lodgings, etc.The actual amount depends on income of parents, but the obligation in principle exis.

Perhaps your ex could buy you out of the house - at any rate it sounds as if he will be able to afford a place big enough for them to stay in for the holidays at least.

You need a really good lawyer and you need them on Monday. Ask around for recommendations.

Thank you, lots to think about. He hasn't mentioned anything yet but I know he'll judt drop it on me soon as it was discussed before. I imagine the first thing to stop will be household money and virgin tv which he has continued to fund til now.
I don't think he or DCs have considered staying with him during holidays as he lives with another person other than mum and they'd feel awkward / disloyal. They've not met her yet. Though he has said there is a room if they want to.
This is youngest DC final week at home so I'll start writing lists and questions and make a start looking for a solicitor but orgsnise for weel after when they have all gone.
Also making a start at looking to increase my earnings and consider if having a term time or weekday lodger would help income if i went down the route of keeping the house.
Lots of food for thought.
I know divorce is about need but I hope we can come to some arrangement where DC can have a home for another few years and they dont need to take on more work than necessary to fund holiday living also

I really think you need to prioritise seeing the solicitor asap - there will be a lot more questions after the first appointment but i think you are facing quite a worrying future. From your h's point of view, he might well think that he has done his job maintaining everyone's life in a stable way until the kids have all left home. On that day, he may feel that he shouldn't have to pay more to you or for more than basic support for his kids (im not saying that would be right and im mot a lawyer). You might need a job really quickly. You really really need to know where you stand.

There was a court case where a child at uni took his father to court to continue financial support, and he won

What case was that? Thought the idea of Student Loans was to enable anyone to go to University irrespective of their parents ability to help or not?

@MissedTheBoatAgain you obviously are not up to speed with modern student finance! All students can borrow their tuition fees. They can then apply for a maintenance loan based on household income in the penultimate tax year before uni. My DS would get around £3k. Living costs are closer to £10k - halls alone charge £7k to £9k, then there is food, books, clothes and travel. This is a modest estimate. Even if the student earns money in the holidays there is a large funding gap.

So implicit in the government’s funding is the idea parents will chip in. Many parents save for this but on divorce the money is split, leaving the student it was intended for with half the money. Of course, they would get the money still if he absent parent cooperated. However a man who is unhappy about paying statutory child maintenance is unlikely to cooperate with that.

To get independent support doesn't the parent have to state the relationship has broken down or something? Maybe the father in the case refused to fill in the paperwork but also refused to provide the money?

To get independent funding the student has to prove they have lived independently of parental support for three years. So a three year gap year! It’s for the student to prove, not the parents.

You simply cannot expect to live without working when you don't have young children. Your parents are not dependents - if they need additional care they need to pay for it or be means-tested to receive council-funded. Anything that you do can be during the 128 hours in the week that aren't occupied by a 40-hour-per-week job.

You should get a full state pension so long as you were the named recipient of child benefit while your kids were children. State pension will not be enough to live on - you need a full time job now and put half your earnings into a private pension or you will never be able to afford to retire.

You are entitled to 50% of all the assets built up during the marriage - house equity, his pension pot and any savings. That won't be enough to live on without working but you should be OK.

This is sensible advice but so many adults on here apparently don’t accept it!

Divorce is about what you are entitled to as well as need, plus a dash of what you are used to - so for e.g. a woman divorcing a millionaire when she stayed home to look after kids and run households doesn't just get a one bed flat when she leaves or he leaves.

You need to see a lawyer, whether he wanted you to work earlier or not he never forced the situation and as a result your job is not earning anywhere near what you may have earned had you continued to work from an earlier date.

Yes you are entitled to a share of pensions - particularly if you are not covered. Although if you registered properly you should have had credits whilst your children were at school etc.

Starting point for a divorce is 50/50 and then you discuss/argue from there and this is where a good family lawyer can help.

As to the man with a 4 bed - hardly your need is it? Are you pleased you "got away" with it? Hope Karma bites you on the arse.

Thank you all so much. I have made a list and I'm working in it.
I never envisaged having to increase my hours in my 50's, I thought I'd be enjoying a bit of space and time to myself. I've an appointment with my employer booked to discuss extra duties and increasing my hours. As it is a primary school I'm not sure that will be enough but increasing my hours will help in the short term.
I know my parents are not my dependants but they have come to depend on me ... I have spoken to siblings and said my hours need to increase so they'll have to help more.
He is coming over on Thursday with the house money so I'll put the feelers out then to see what's going to happen after this payment.
Thanks again everyone. Lots for me to think of ... I am seeing more and more that I've let myself down a bit here, especially this last year I've known this would happen but I've buried my head. I've not worked enough or thought how much of an impact this would have.
In fairness to him he has been calm and very much nothing will change until after A level results. I am hoping I know him well enough to know this will happen in stages and he wont leave me needing as he is very much aware the DCs need a place to stay and he wants stability for them ... fingers crossed anyway

It was what I had to pay him, not the other way round in my divorce! (I earn more and always worked full time - he got 60% not 50% and our financial order says I support the children at university too, not him).

So in your case you would be entitled to s pension sharing order (which means you get a share of his pension ear marked for you when he turns 67 or whatever his retirement age is). He might insist you wait for that and not get more of the house instead or he might not.

You can check your state pension entitlement with the government once you reach a certain age - I applied on line and got an estimate which was about £150 a week when I get to 67 - You also can count 10 years at home with children towards the 35 year of NI contributinos you need to get a state pension and you will probably work from now until you are 67 full time anyway so plenty of time to build up more NI contributions but even so your full state pension may only be about £8k a year.

If he only agrees a pension share then you might well be entitled to half the house plus some spousal maintenance until you get back on your feet into full time work- perhaps for 5 years only. You may get more than half the house.

you need to looka t the sums (and see a good solicitor). Eg if the house equity is £100k and his pension will yield before taxation about £40k a year when he is nearly 70 that is very different from £1m equity in the house and £20k before tax pension.

My 5 children (2 at university now) have all come homw after - the older 3 so far and that was very useful for them whilst doing post grad law, training etc. In my view most parents whether divorced or not probably recognise graduate children might need a year or two at home particularly if home is near where work might be and they certainly are home in university holidays - my 2 have been home most of the last 3 months (I am counting down the days until they go back on Thursday - don't tell them I said that, lovely though they are).

Depending on your age you if you are older you might be able to get equity release (don't if you can avoid it) to help you stay in the house or if younger and in work perhaps if a relative would guarantee the mortgage for you (big ask) you could remortgage. I took on £1.3m of mortgage debt to pay my husband off entirely in a clean break. he also got my life savings and all my shares. It was worth it to keep the house and the children's home.

@Xenia. OMG. What a terrible thing to happen to you.

I earned more so that is the price you pay. The unfairness is that someone can be so bad you divorce them (the children even were asking me to divorce him as he was so nasty) and then that person gets a lot of money. Despite that I would not re-introduce fault into divorce law - we got rid of it in about 1970 as if it came back everyone would blame each other.

The factors for divorce settlement seem to be attitude of your H to supporting the dc and if it went to court, the attitude of the judge.Outside that you can factor 50:50 asset split and assume very limited SM.

Hopefully your H will share your aims for the dc. Do you have access to finances and know savings, his pension and earnings?

If your parents need care them maybe they or your siblings will be happy to make a financial contribution. Otherwise it is perfectly normal to work full time in your situation. Have you done a state pension projection? I assume both of you will be assessed 're pension sharing.

The unfairness is that someone can be so bad you divorce them (the children even were asking me to divorce him as he was so nasty) and then that person gets a lot of money

Men have faced that situation since Divorce was invented.