How to know when maintenance ends ?

[stillsane]

My son is approaching 19 soon, I'm under the belief in the UK maintenance should end when child benefit is not being claimed which is linked to whether the child is in approved education or training up to the age of 20 - not 100% sure if that's correct ?

I have a payment agreement in place with the mother outside of CMS, how can I determine when I should stop paying maintenance or in other words how can I possibly find out when child benefit is not longer being claimed or being received ? Ideally I don't want to cause ill feelings with solicitor letters.

Speak to your son. Just have a chat/pint with him and explain you want to support him directly. You could ask for a solicitor appointment just for advice - don't be antagonistic with your exW, but just to check you are doing the right thing. You could draft a letter if you think it will get messy.

Don't put the ball in your son's court and ask him his thoughts, just tell him he's nearly 19 and you will support him directly?

Is your som living in his mother’s house, using room and utilities there? Is she feeding him and providing for his needs - buying his clothes, footwear, gadgets, feeding him?
Then the large amounts of money you are paying his mother are not really used to ‘fund her lifestyle’?

It’a not really complicated - your son is either in education/training - and if you are a normal father, you’d do your share of supporting him while he is studying. Or your son is working and making money, and can support himself independently.

You sound suspicious and legalistic. Do you not believe your son as to whether he is making money?

Ad hoc direct payments to your son in the situation where your son is not yet self sufficient simply shifts responsibility for housing/supporting him to the other parent - especially if he lives in her house

My son did a government approved apprenticeship but were no.longer entitled to CB from that point onwards. It's classed as paid employment.

How much money are we talking about here?

Why don’t you just contact CMS and go through them because they will finish the claim at the correct time.

paying my ex large sums of money supporting her life style

And there it is!

You said that your maintenance payments are in line with the CMS calculator, so in the real world, your child maintenance isn’t even enough to cover the costs of raising your child.

You are certainly not supporting anyone’s “life style”.

Let me guess, she spends the CM (all £30 of it) on vodka and getting her nails done 😉

If he isn’t in college then she won’t be able to claim Child Benefit it is that simple.

Message and say “I understand that CB will stop on X date when child finishes education. I will support him directly from that point. If you think that CB will continue once he is working, send me documents supporting that and I will reinstate CM”.

Op its simply when he finishes college. Apprenticeships are paid.

Is the vast sum of money court ordered or just an arrangement that the two of you came to? If court ordered, check the wording and ask a family solicitor for advice. If not cpurt ordered contact CMS to do the calculation and probably they would do the eligibility check to see whether CMS is due.

Why are you suspicious of the course? Something your son said?

I would say that if your son is not working and still studying you need to continue to contribute to his costs (as you would if he lived with you)
Or offer that he comes to live with you. It doesn't matter what sort of lifestyle his mum leads, you still need to be supporting your son, both financially and practically, until he can support himself in my view.

You were doing quite well until this comment.

You're not funding her lifestyle are you though? You're funding your child's needs.

As for the huge sums of money, if youre paying inline with CMS, you're paying the bare minimum.

At least now everyone knows what you really think.

With respect you don't know what I'm paying, it far far beyond what any of the things you list costs, no job and living in a 4 bed detached, yes it's funding her life style.

I think you think it’s more complicated than it is.

Your DS will not be eligible for CB if he is earning, even the paltry amount he gets on a paid apprenticeship.

He would be eligible if he is doing an unpaid apprenticeship, but only if he starts it before he turns 19. https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit-16-19

If he will still be 18 when he starts, you should be able to ask your DS if the apprenticeship will be paid or unpaid?

Taking your feelings about your son's mother out of the equation even though that's the real reason for wanting to stop, if he's in education or training, you are still liable until he's 20 or he leaves education or training and enters higher education (eg, a degree) or employment prior to turning 20.

If he enters full time employment with something resembling day release/under 2 days or 12 hours a week as an apprentice, he has left education/training and child maintenance stops on the last day of February, May, August or November after he starts (whichever comes first).

My ex stopped paying the September after my kids turned 18. He has never paid while they are at university (either to me or directly to them) and this was in line with the legal position.

You can get child benefit until their 19th birthday if they are in full time education lower than degree level, so if that's the case you may need to pay until then. Apprenticeships don't count as full time education as they are paid and nor do university degrees for the purposes of child benefit, free prescriptions etc and child maintenance.

Up to your conscience if you want to offer your child some money directly.

With respect - you said that you are using CMS calculation to define your level of payments. So - they are not disproportionate and set at a percentage of your earnings.

You still did not answer - is your son now able to feed and house himself? If so - you are in no moral obligation to continue paying maintenance.

If your son is still in training - then yes, you as a parent should support him. If you stop - do you expect his mother to use her benefits to feed/clothe him? (guessing here as you said she does not work)

I think the OP is getting a hard time here, but only because he has phrased this completely wrong!

I think, this is what he’s getting at:

Son will be doing an apprenticeship.
Q1) How to find out if that is classed as a ‘real apprenticeship’ in the eyes of child benefit?
Q2) How to find out if ex is still receiving child benefit?

If child benefit is no longer being paid, the OP can make his own arrangements directly with his son, instead of through the Ex.

Could you contact to say you'll be stopping payments on x date as you assume no longer in education. Please provide evidence if continuing in education. Would CMS give advice on what counts?

A lot of the time the child has been conditioned to be vague by the receiving parent. Very sad state of affairs but happens more than you think

You seem to be suggesting I should continue paying my ex large sums of money forever - because ?

So we're saying an apprenticeship isn't training ?

How is 'training' defined ? learning something either in college or a work environment with no pay ?

I'm still saying the father should have visibility of CB that would make things so much easier, no arguments then.

So you would stop paying your ex and maybe contribute to your sons bank account?

do you not talk to your son and just ask him

Child benefit stops when they are no longer in full time education, that is when your child maintenance also stops.
I know as ive been there with my oldest.

If you're not going through CMS and paying ex partner direct then I would ask outright what your son's intentions are and exactly what course/college he is attending or proof of an approved apprenticeship. If you don't receive any proof then you can just stop payments. Your ex wouldn't receive benefits without submitting evidence to DWP etc so the same applies to you.
You could alao privately assist your son each month if you so wished rather than give it direct to his mother if you still have a good relationship with him.

Child benefit stops if the child is in a paid apprenticeship. The support continues if in low level education but only if accepted before turning 19.