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Coming Clean by Liz Fraser

1000 replies

RhinoRhino · 25/06/2023 12:13

A couple of threads that I had posted on relating to the Memoir ‘Coming Clean’ by Liz Fraser have been deleted from the MN site, apparently due to non-compliance of the MN guidelines from the posters. MN are obviously well within their rights to delete threads if they demonstrably fail to comply with their guidelines, nevertheless I feel strongly that MN posters are given a platform to critique this book, and also any other public ventures by this author. It would be neither fair nor right that posters are completely silenced in this particular matter.

As such, and in line with Mumsnet not seeing “anything wrong with honest feedback” I would like to make the comment that Coming Clean as a Memoir falls short due to the shaky and not entirely truthful narrative. There are certain facts contained within this memoir that are easily disprovable (for example, relating to the marital status of both author and her partner when they started their ill-fated affair), which leaves a massive question mark over the rest of the book. Is it entirely reasonable to make money from something that is promoted as truthful when it is, in fact, not entirely true?

I think there are people whose lives have been negatively impacted by the book and its subject matter, and I hope that MN will agree that these people should have a voice, as should anybody who wants to comment on a published piece of work.

As long as posters align their comments with the MN guidelines, this is a topic that people may wish to keep discussing, and also keep in the public domain. And if MN wants to provide a set of rules particular to this thread – certainly if they are arbitrary and differ from the general guidelines - I am sure it would be very helpful.

Mumsnet, please help us to help each other by keeping in the public domain something that us silenced mums feel should be out there.

OP posts:
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NHSarah · 30/06/2023 10:57

RhinoRhino · 29/06/2023 12:57

Agree @Larkspurblue

I feel very strongly about the scurrilous accusations put on social media yesterday, and Ms Fraser publicly implying that ‘other people’ are wholly responsible for her chaotic emotions.

I know the MN cleaners all have their own stories, but I have never seen anything like the self-pitying accusations and finger pointing from any of them that we get from LF.

Not particularly expecting anybody to be interested, but the following might explain why I am so interested in giving ‘honest feedback’ on the self-absorbed witterings of this particular person.

Bear with, if I seem to be off topic here:

A while back an innocent question on my part, asked of my neighbour, ended up in years of unrelenting vitriol thrown at me and my family, which for a protracted period of time was absolutely horrendous. I thought we had a reasonable relationship with the neighbour, so thought nothing when I bumped into him one day, of asking him about the siting of the dilapidated vehicle he had recently parked in front of my living room window, significantly impacting on the beautiful view of the valley below. I asked how long it would be there, but didn’t even get as far as pointing out that with hundreds of acres of land it might be more neighbourly for this eyesore to be moved elsewhere before he muttered darkly that we “shouldn’t be having this conversation” and stalked off. Very odd. Didn’t know what to make of it.

Little did I know of the zealotry with which a narcissist will punish. The lengths to which they will go to pursue a vendetta. How naive was I? I had obviously made a massive mistake by questioning this man, and I paid for it for YEARS.

To cut a (very) long story short, this was the beginning of the most bizarre and horrendously stressful few years (yes, years!), in which - particularly me - but also my husband and 3 young children were bullied, ostracized, targeted, talked about, threatened, provoked, had property damaged, were spied on, sworn at, filmed – you name it, it happened to us. We also experienced the crocodile tears of a cowardly bully on the odd occasion we managed to challenge his conduct. Other neighbours in our small development, although not as horrendous as the protagonist, soon joined in the fun. (We called them the ‘cheerleaders’ or ‘sycophants’, hence my utter disdain for the LF ‘twitterphants’.) We received pompous missives from the tedious twit of an Army Officer who lived two doors down telling us we had done such and such a misdemeanour, and how our conduct was negatively affecting the neighbourhood, to which I would reply that the accusations were wholly inaccurate, but thanks for letting me know etc. (Of course the accusations were abject nonsense, but I wasn’t going to justify myself to Major Humour Bypass.) The drunken old harpy who lived next door to us would have loud and long-winded phone calls with other neighbours within earshot when we were trying to enjoy some time in our garden, criticizing everything about us, from what we were wearing to my husband’s balding pate(!). (We still sometimes quote her to each other “YOU, with your wine and your candles” and “YOU with your bald head and your shorts!”.) It got to the point where we would sidle out of our own house and scuttle to a small, private part of the garden in the vain hope that nobody would see us and start something. They’d even have what we called ‘clan meetings’ about us, where they would gather in one house to plot about is. Looking back it was all completely surreal!

At one point, the neighbour bought himself a commercial sawmill and would use it daily from 8am to 6pm within yards of our house. The noise was deafening. Cannot possibly be within H&S guidelines to have such noise so close to residences. He did this all summer long for at least the last 3 or 4 years we lived there. (Council Noise Nuisance couldn’t do anything, of course. Of course they couldn’t. Where there isn’t a will, there is certainly no way!) His kids and grandkids used to drive round and round our house on noisy quad bikes for hours on end, with 4 or 5 yapping dogs running alongside. Neighbour collected up all his rusted old farm machinery, trailers, truck, tractors etc (no longer a working farm, in order to get planning permission for 3 residences, one of which we lived in) and dumped it all in front of our view. He stacked black-plastic wrapped bales as high as he could, as close to our house as possible. He blocked me and my young children from leaving the development, by having a ‘broken down’ digger on an impassible part of the access road. He had recently threatened my husband that he would happily go to prison in order to ‘sort me out’, so I was naturally apprehensive at being imprisoned by his digger, and had to ask my then 85-year-old father to drive 20 miles to come and rescue us. Even as we clambered into my father’s car and drove away we were followed at close quarters by my neighbour in his car until we could get to a more public location. He and his son ambushed me on a dark and isolated lane (a situation which I managed, by the skin of my teeth, to escape). This last one was the last straw at which point we decided to leave. (And yes, we should have left years before, but for some naïve reason we used to think it would all get better!) And no, the police ‘couldn’t do anything’. No will. No way.

It was horrendous. And of course, no campaign of bullying is complete without threats of legal action. I got so many solicitor letters from the idiot that the postman once laughed as he handed me the latest! (I was friendly with the postie, and he had no time for idiot neighbour, so he wasn’t being horrible!) There were many threats of injunctions (from where I parked my car, to what I could plant in my garden, to you name it …….), and lots of pompous drivel from a various solicitors. (I think he went through 3 of the buggers during his vendetta against me and mine.) I answered all the solicitor letters myself, pointed out the inaccuracies and asked them to explain themselves, which they could never do. Such letters are sent to intimidate, by idiots who think everybody is intimidated by solicitors, and whilst I wasn’t intimidated by the accusations per se, dealing with constant vexatious complaints all added to the stress we were under. Whilst both working and bringing up 3 children. Oh, and both my mother and sister died during this time, too.

All the misery inflicted upon us was borne of me asking this man a perfectly reasonable question.

So, back on topic. It was during the endless hours of composing responses to solicitors and also to the (by now) Colonel Pomparse (our naughty nickname for the now promoted Army twit) that I happened upon the witterings of Liz Fraser on SM. I know we are not encouraged to diagnose, but by this time I was an expert in spotting narcissistic behaviour. An expert! It would be true to say my interest in this particular narc was displacement from the awfulness of the situation I was in, and although we have long since moved and are thriving as a family, I have kept up my interest in the eccentric conduct of one LF. (What the former neighbours are up to I neither know nor care!)

To this day I get very passionate about the injustice of narcs attacking, bullying and intimidating people who have crossed them. And I don’t accept their crocodile tears.

Sorry if that was very self indulgent, but at least I’ve got it off my chest!

OMG. I’m without words. What hell you’ve been through. Even “YOU with your bald head and your shorts!”.

Seriously though, She doesn’t get what people in the real world go through. Ref working in the NHS, we see the best and the worst of humanity.

FeedHedgehogsCatBiscuits · 30/06/2023 11:18

Head Girl did an interview in the Times `Relative Values' section in 2007. Maddeningly I don't have an account!
I know a lot of info has to be kept under wraps here but Reddit is far more forgiving, so is Tattle Life.
Anyone seeking to dish any anonymous tea can find the Reddit thread at LizFraser Legend.

Larkspurblue · 30/06/2023 11:24

@ObservingToo

What a shame you didn't feel supported by this platform and shame on MNHQ for making you feel like that. I hope you felt supported by us.

I think she has comprehensively manipulated MN and they should be ashamed. I am carrying on with this thread, as are others, for the sake of the people who aren't on Reddit or TL (the more platforms the better IMHO).

All the best to you and your family.

FeedHedgehogsCatBiscuits · 30/06/2023 11:43

Now I'm deep diving into Tattle Life (sometimes wish internet had never been invented) into the Sali Hughes threads. I don't know much about her but threads and threads which have never been taken down. It's the wild west!

RhinoRhino · 30/06/2023 15:27

@ObservingToo I agree with you. I'd always thought Mumsnet was all a bit "overheard in Waitrose" so never bothered with it before the LF threads.

Hurrah for the lovely Cleaning Ladies, and I hope you are doing well.

And @FeedHedgehogsCatBiscuits Yes, I've been hooked in by TL, too. Alice Evans for me. The Alice Evans/Ioan Gruffod car crash divorce. What's THAT all about?

OP posts:
GreekDogRescue · 30/06/2023 18:03

A lot of drama from HG. I wonder if this is the first time in her life she has been held accountable for her behaviour?

Coming Clean by Liz Fraser
RhinoRhino · 30/06/2023 19:13

Yup. What is it that these people don't get? Plaster your personal life all over social media, then assume nobody has the right of reply, unless they are blowing smoke up your arse? Ridiculous! We've still just about got freedom of speech in this country, as far as I am aware. Which means we can still express an opinion. Whoever we are, and whatever that opinion happens to be.

Has she made a case that anything anybody has said is incorrect?

Thought not.

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Larkspurblue · 30/06/2023 19:38

Well, how very strange. That outburst against a flirty video of her wiggling her bottom in the mirror. What are we to make of it? A narc rage again!

A few questions:

  1. What mistakes have you made in life, Liz? You haven't owned up to any.
  2. Taking the piss out of your Converse and Top Shop vest pale into insignificance compared to a 5 year affair with someone else's husband. And stealing a newly-married man from his new wife. Wouldn't you agree?
  3. You use the terms "libel", "stalking" "defamation" and "contempt of court". You need to be careful, these all have legal definitions. Anyone posting in the public domain e.g. on Twitter/Instagram cannot accuse people of "stalking". And, if it's true ... well
  4. Is the fact the it is being "carefully looked at" supposed to scare people? I thought you were loftily above such threats according to your post.

You could help yourself by accepting that people are outraged by your complete lack of acceptance of the harm you have caused to others. Start with an apology and we may get somewhere.

Tortiemiaw · 30/06/2023 20:41

Goodness, me, she's cross, isn't she. Perhaps she should remember she put her address into the public domain via sludgeway press.
Silly girl.

Raydt · 30/06/2023 22:22

Tortiemiaw · 30/06/2023 20:41

Goodness, me, she's cross, isn't she. Perhaps she should remember she put her address into the public domain via sludgeway press.
Silly girl.

Following a huge song and dance about the letter from Companies House being hand delivered 🤷‍♀️

KatZw · 30/06/2023 22:26

Tortiemiaw · 30/06/2023 20:41

Goodness, me, she's cross, isn't she. Perhaps she should remember she put her address into the public domain via sludgeway press.
Silly girl.

She really is so so cross. The reel is so cringey and then putting it up again and again on stories…

NHSarah · 30/06/2023 22:27

Larkspurblue · 30/06/2023 19:38

Well, how very strange. That outburst against a flirty video of her wiggling her bottom in the mirror. What are we to make of it? A narc rage again!

A few questions:

  1. What mistakes have you made in life, Liz? You haven't owned up to any.
  2. Taking the piss out of your Converse and Top Shop vest pale into insignificance compared to a 5 year affair with someone else's husband. And stealing a newly-married man from his new wife. Wouldn't you agree?
  3. You use the terms "libel", "stalking" "defamation" and "contempt of court". You need to be careful, these all have legal definitions. Anyone posting in the public domain e.g. on Twitter/Instagram cannot accuse people of "stalking". And, if it's true ... well
  4. Is the fact the it is being "carefully looked at" supposed to scare people? I thought you were loftily above such threats according to your post.

You could help yourself by accepting that people are outraged by your complete lack of acceptance of the harm you have caused to others. Start with an apology and we may get somewhere.

Let’s not forget how you chased Mike’s new partner through Oxford like a screaming banshee.

Or screamed at your own daughter to get out of the coffee shop while you shouted at the husband of your friend who you’d been shagging. Is this what you’re referring to as “contempt of court?” Or your contempt of court when caught out for child alienation?

“So dangerous Mike” is suddenly not so dangerous it seems.

NHSarah · 30/06/2023 22:29

KatZw · 30/06/2023 22:26

She really is so so cross. The reel is so cringey and then putting it up again and again on stories…

And while her son is “staying” with her. She hardly sees her son but rather than engage with him, she’s sucking in her Twitter Twerps.

KatZw · 30/06/2023 22:54

NHSarah · 30/06/2023 22:29

And while her son is “staying” with her. She hardly sees her son but rather than engage with him, she’s sucking in her Twitter Twerps.

And spending all her time at the gym…

SundayNight · 01/07/2023 00:24

KatZw · 30/06/2023 22:54

And spending all her time at the gym…

Like she hasn’t fine all through her poverty and close to death illness. Such a fraud.

Umbrella99 · 01/07/2023 07:45

No one published her home address. People instead pointed out that making your OWN address freely available online via companies house AND filming interior shots of your home including window locks was not a wise thing to do. That is because it was not a wise thing to do! As a result sharing (time and again) when the house is empty is not a wise thing to do. There is no personal element to pointing this out. Many people post all over social media that they are on holiday/how long they are away for/when they are back. None of this information is good to share in the public domain. Also if you want privacy etc do not use any part of your address or other personal information in the name of any company you might set up. Again this is a generic (and fairly obvious) piece of advice

Umbrella99 · 01/07/2023 07:52

And everything else is in the public domain too. Via her own writing, posting, books OR from the people who have either witnessed events first hand OR picked up the pieces from said events. It is an unfortunate fact that none of us is able to rewrite history when it suits us.

There are many many other things I would like to say but won’t however history, TRUTH (real not convenient rewriting of) and her own social media and collected ‘works’ do it better than anyone else could anyway.

MitziKinsky · 01/07/2023 09:10

I'm not about to run off of TL or Reddit, so if I've got anything to say I'll say it on here on MN, and let it be closely scrutinised.

I'm surprised to find how many mutual acquaintances LF and I have- it's a small word, and one reason I occasionally read her SM posts. (Her holiday to Annecy was quite interesting to follow - if it was a work trip, as she claims, then I'd be interested to read what she's written about it, but the lack of any link to a publication suggests the travel which did her mental health such good, was in fact a holiday by another name Anyway, I think travelling to Annecy would do me the world of good, so she'll be pleased to hear she continues to inspire! ) DD had already asked to go there anyway, but hey

I suspect the other threads were deleted because LF explained to MN they were making her suicidal. She's either having the best time in her life since she was married, or she's suicidal. She can't be both! So it's difficult to follow what she's really posting about. The only explaination seems to be her bi-polar is at play. (Or what she posts on SM isn't entirely truthful) As much as LF has behaved atrociously (made mistakes, as she'd call it) it should be remembered she's not particularly mentally healthy. As she has explained she had an eating disorder and bi-polar and C-PTSD, the last of which she seems to blame on Mike.

I very much doubt anyone has has published her address on SM- from the info she has posted online, anyone could easily look it up if they wanted, they could also find the school her child attends, etc.

  • If you're reading this Liz, I'm saying this with kindness; please think carefully about what info you post online. You may not care that people know where you live or which school your child attends, but some of your SM followers are creepy as fuck. You may appreciate their comments on your FUN and FREE posts, and their applause of your pants and nipples, but these men are the people you should be concerned about, not people who are calling you out on your mistakes.-

What has made raise my eyebrows is the claim that the ugly abuser trolls are jealous of her. The only jealously I've seen is that she is financially better off than many people - it seems people who have given her money through links she has posted online and they are more angry than jealous. Personally I think "more fool them" to give an individual stranger money, and hope they have learned something from this.

The last time I followed someone on SM who was as clearly as unwell as LF, (I also had to stop following them as it was too awkward to view) and posted in a similar "I'm fine and perfect and the rest of the world is fucking wrong" style is sadly no longer alive after falling out of a window. The manic dancing LF recently posted doesn't strike me as FUN, I find it unsettling and bizarre. It's the kind of thing one on my parents would do when I was a child when they were deeply unhappy and trying not to show it, so to me it just seems "off".

The other thing that seems off is all the posts of drinking alcohol when the father of your child is an alcoholic. I'd like to think she doesn't go as far as to answer the door to him with a glass of wine in her hand. I very much doubt she actually drinks much of the alcohol she posts about anyway, due to the calorie content, but what do I know?!

LibertyLily · 01/07/2023 10:46

Thanks so much @RhinoRhino and @Larkspurblue 🙂

Blimey, just caught up with the latest insta shenanigans...someone was VERY peed off yesterday, weren't they!?!

RhinoRhino · 01/07/2023 11:09

Good post, @MitziKinsky

I hear you re the mental health issues, but I’m just not sure where the boundaries lie regarding reasonable conduct towards others and on/off decades-long mental health issues. Does having such issues preclude a person from conducting themselves in a more considerate manner towards others? Is the wellbeing of other people irrelevant if one has mental health issues? Is one allowed to make up narratives then get angry when called out due to having mental health problems? Should we expect people with MH issues to seek and engage with help and therapies, and not just broadcast it all over SM? I am very uncomfortable with the idea of excusing conduct because of (often) self-diagnosed and non-treated mental health conditions. To the point that the next time somebody takes the opportunity to inform me they suffer from anxiety etc, I think my first question will be ‘and what steps are you taking to address it?’

That's a reasonable response, as far as I am concerned.

OP posts:
RhinoRhino · 01/07/2023 11:11

And now wondering if I can get a TL code, if anybody has a spare one?

OP posts:
ObservingToo · 01/07/2023 12:38

MitziKinsky · 01/07/2023 09:10

I'm not about to run off of TL or Reddit, so if I've got anything to say I'll say it on here on MN, and let it be closely scrutinised.

I'm surprised to find how many mutual acquaintances LF and I have- it's a small word, and one reason I occasionally read her SM posts. (Her holiday to Annecy was quite interesting to follow - if it was a work trip, as she claims, then I'd be interested to read what she's written about it, but the lack of any link to a publication suggests the travel which did her mental health such good, was in fact a holiday by another name Anyway, I think travelling to Annecy would do me the world of good, so she'll be pleased to hear she continues to inspire! ) DD had already asked to go there anyway, but hey

I suspect the other threads were deleted because LF explained to MN they were making her suicidal. She's either having the best time in her life since she was married, or she's suicidal. She can't be both! So it's difficult to follow what she's really posting about. The only explaination seems to be her bi-polar is at play. (Or what she posts on SM isn't entirely truthful) As much as LF has behaved atrociously (made mistakes, as she'd call it) it should be remembered she's not particularly mentally healthy. As she has explained she had an eating disorder and bi-polar and C-PTSD, the last of which she seems to blame on Mike.

I very much doubt anyone has has published her address on SM- from the info she has posted online, anyone could easily look it up if they wanted, they could also find the school her child attends, etc.

  • If you're reading this Liz, I'm saying this with kindness; please think carefully about what info you post online. You may not care that people know where you live or which school your child attends, but some of your SM followers are creepy as fuck. You may appreciate their comments on your FUN and FREE posts, and their applause of your pants and nipples, but these men are the people you should be concerned about, not people who are calling you out on your mistakes.-

What has made raise my eyebrows is the claim that the ugly abuser trolls are jealous of her. The only jealously I've seen is that she is financially better off than many people - it seems people who have given her money through links she has posted online and they are more angry than jealous. Personally I think "more fool them" to give an individual stranger money, and hope they have learned something from this.

The last time I followed someone on SM who was as clearly as unwell as LF, (I also had to stop following them as it was too awkward to view) and posted in a similar "I'm fine and perfect and the rest of the world is fucking wrong" style is sadly no longer alive after falling out of a window. The manic dancing LF recently posted doesn't strike me as FUN, I find it unsettling and bizarre. It's the kind of thing one on my parents would do when I was a child when they were deeply unhappy and trying not to show it, so to me it just seems "off".

The other thing that seems off is all the posts of drinking alcohol when the father of your child is an alcoholic. I'd like to think she doesn't go as far as to answer the door to him with a glass of wine in her hand. I very much doubt she actually drinks much of the alcohol she posts about anyway, due to the calorie content, but what do I know?!

I am one who gave to her and I have learned a very valuable lesson. It’s sad that I wasn’t able to genuinely help someone who needed it and never will again because of her. I went though hell. I was hospitalised and my ex served time. He’s now serving again for breaching an order. My children are damaged by the whole experience. I wouldn’t damage them more by living it all out on social media.

I donated because a felt we could almost barter. She was “desperate for money to feed her children” I’d been in this situation and I was desperate for information on how to support them and form me to move forward better and faster. She promised me this.

rather I got a few blogs about her. A few about holidays and nothing until some stuff about setting up a publishing company to help women like me!!! Well not women like me because I’m now having to go through the small claims court. More money but I mentally need to make a point. She made me feel like a fool and I idealised suicide as a result because I couldn’t believe I’d let another person abuse me.

Ive not trolled her. I once asked when I could expect the blogs and I got deleted and blocked. The same as she did to another lady I’m now friends with. What Liz did do was share the medicine she on with her. She could have posted this online, but chose not to.

She respected Liz’s privacy. All I will say is the drug is not for PTSD of C-PTSD and I checked with my nhs psychiatrist and he’d never heard of it being prescribed for this before. What it is typically prescribed for tied up with her behaviour. It’s possibly a less glamorous diagnosis to announce to the world and i am not a troll and so won’t either.

Liz Without a doubt has mental health isuues as do I and my children. Life can be tough. We should never use mental health as sn excuse for behaviour. It just makes the stigma of it worse. Mass murderers always have “mental health issues.” They might have but this is not why they’re mass murderers. They’re mass murderers because they’re evil. Otherwise, no one would still be not-murdered! Lots of people have mental health issues.

Rachealfar · 01/07/2023 12:43

FeedHedgehogsCatBiscuits · 30/06/2023 11:43

Now I'm deep diving into Tattle Life (sometimes wish internet had never been invented) into the Sali Hughes threads. I don't know much about her but threads and threads which have never been taken down. It's the wild west!

I’ve never heard of her. I don’t dare look her up!

Rachealfar · 01/07/2023 12:54

Umbrella99 · 01/07/2023 07:52

And everything else is in the public domain too. Via her own writing, posting, books OR from the people who have either witnessed events first hand OR picked up the pieces from said events. It is an unfortunate fact that none of us is able to rewrite history when it suits us.

There are many many other things I would like to say but won’t however history, TRUTH (real not convenient rewriting of) and her own social media and collected ‘works’ do it better than anyone else could anyway.

Yes. All I know about her is what she has shared. Including her home address and everything any crook would need to have a good go at accessing her children’s bank accounts! It’s very possible she has no idea what she posts. Her mood and message changes faster that the weather.

Coffeeandcards · 01/07/2023 12:57

I’ve also never heard of her, just looked her up to see what I was missing… she seems unwell to me.

What’s the reason for this thread though? I genuinely don’t really get it, but I’ve missed the history, clearly…

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