A Catholic confirmation conundrum!!

[Dontlletmedownbruce]

I can't decide about something so am asking for some MN wise words!

I am Irish Catholic in my 40s. Typical of my generation, Catholicism for me is mass at Christmas and Easter, maybe a few random other Sundays and Catholic celebrations like funerals, Holy Communions, Confirmations etc. I was married in a Church. My children go to the local Catholic school and they have been baptised and had their Communion. These events are not just important to me and DH but they are a big deal for our extended family, people travel to these and get new outfits etc.

I have twins who are due to make their Confirmation and one has now decided he does not wish to be a Catholic and wants to quit. I thought at first it was because the alternative activity offered to non Catholics during practice time was better but that doesn't seem to be the case. Not only does he not want the sacrament but he says he is atheist and that's never going to change. He is 12. If he doesn't have his confirmation this will cause complications if he wants to marry in a church, but otherwise doesn't make much of a difference to his life. He can stay at home from mass when we go. The real complication is I will need to go ahead with the confirmation and the family event for his twin who will get loads of money and fuss and he won't, I will also have to explain to everyone that its not his confirmation just his twins and explain his views. I feel grandparents will be difficult about this and it seems like a lot of unnecessary drama. DH is not too happy about this either.

Truthfully, my gut feeling is he is mature enough to make a decision and we should be respecting that. I actually admire his stance, he seems to have really thought it through and makes a very good case. I just don't want him to kick off on the day or turn around in 15 years and be annoyed with us for letting the kid version of himself make a decision like this. I am obviously his parent and I get to choose, I just can't decide what is the right thing to do here.

I'd be interested to know the views of any others who understand the culture and background. Some of my friends are very anti religion and don't understand at all why this would be an issue because they have elected to raise their children without religion and can be a bit sneery about those of us who have to chosen to do so.

I come from a very religious background OP, if mixed, father Italian Catholic and mother CofE.
I'd be very inclined to support him. I assume - given the world we live in now - he's aware of all the abuse scandals etc, and if he's using the word atheist he's considered and thought about what he's doing and it will have taken no small amount of courage on his part to decide to stick his own neck out like this, and to his own financial loss too. Have you had much discussion with him about the whole thing?
And how does the other twin feel about it? I think there may be an element of twin 1 declaring his individuality, which is also no bad thing, but still needs sensitive handling.

I would also be very inclined to support him. He can always change his mind later if he decides he is no longer atheist. True belief and religious conviction are much more meaningful than children going along with well-established cultural Catholicism at an age when most won't have thought in depth about it. He will benefit from your thoughtful understanding and listening more than participating in Confirmation when he doesn't believe in what it's all about.

I am from a very religious Catholic family (not Irish) and we were never encouraged to think about our beliefs or question anything. Neither me or my siblings have any religious belief now. Perhaps if we had been encouraged to discuss our doubts etc it might have led to our own meaningful belief rather than just going along with what was expected at the time. I am not anti-religion but doing things because it is somehow 'expected' is not a good way to live and is actually rather meaningless.

I'm speaking from a slightly different position in that I am a very fervent believer, but I understand the cultural attachment that you (and some other people our age) have. I'm half Irish.

Absolutely let him choose. As a catechist (and a parent to a child who chose not to get confirmed), we 100% want them to choose for themselves and not to perjure themselves by claiming to believe something they don't. We always tell parents this, and make sure they know why it has to be the child's choice.

It's not impossible to get married in the church without confirmation (although much more difficult in some countries, e.g. Italy), and I frequently prepare people for Confirmation as adults, sometimes while they're engaged. I have a class of 7 this year. If he does decide he wants it later on, there won't be a problem.

It might not mean anything to you, but as an aside, if anyone is forced into a sacrament against their will then the sacrament isn't valid. He could have decent grounds for getting his confirmation annulled later.

If he's decided that this is his belief system for now, then good on him for realising that Confirmation is more than the money and keeping the grandparents happy. It is much more respectful of those who are religious to admit that you don't share that belief than it is to go through with a sham for the sake of not upsetting the wider family.

I agree that it's complicated to have a twin making confirmation and him not, much harder than just skipping it. But you can make it easier for him: 1) talk to the other adults first and tell them not to give him a hard time about it, you and your husband can field the hurt feelings from great-uncles. 2) forewarn him and maybe practise with him what to say if granny does start having a go. 3) make sure he understands how the day will go, set expectations - he will still need to come to the Mass and be at the party to celebrate with his brother/sister; this will just be about his twin and he won't directly be a part of it ...

I grew up in Catholic ireland to a lapsed Catholic irish mother and a father that was no religion (he was English and was never part of any religion).

My mother asked me coming up to communion if I wanted to do it or not . I said no and I didn't become catholic.

I don't regret my choice to this day. Its important to be able to make your own choices.
Children should have a choice..there's no pont at all forcing anyone into any religion.

I'm proud of you OP for listening to him.

I see too many people on Ireland forcing their children to become Catholics, simply because that's what society wants. And because people around them are Catholic. They don't ask the children what they would like to do

He can get married in a church if he isn't confirmed.....my Dad is Church of England and married my catholic mother in a Catholic Church.
This is also the case for my grandparents and my in laws.
So I wouldn't worried about that.
My dad in his 60s is converting to Catholicism.
I'm like you, I would say I'm more culturally catholic!
Me and my husband were 15 when we were confirmed...we resented it. We went to the preparation evenings and found quite a few people from school in the same boat as us......

Our children will have the same celebration. Confirmation in church or not. The important thing is that they choose the right thing for them.
We are a church going family but the children can choose for themselves.

the family event for his twin who will get loads of money and fuss and he won't

Surely everyone will give both twins money, regardless? I can't imagine his grannies and uncles saying 'Here, have a well-stuffed card' to the twin being confirmed and 'Nothing for you, atheist twin!'

I'm from a similar background OP. DTs decided they didn't want to be confirmed for a number of reasons and that is fine by me.

Let them chose.

And presumably the atheist twin will not be put out in the garage while the rest of you celebrate on the confirmation day, or left out of a family meal out, or whatever?

I am married in a Catholic church and am not confirmed, neither was my husband. Perhaps in Ireland it´s different. I would set expectations for the day for him, it will be about his twin and he will have to celebrate. I was 14 when I decided I didn´t want to go to church every Sunday, my dad was shocked but didn´t say anything! My mum said you coul´ve blown her down with a feather when he didn´t say anything.
Are the timings also different in Ireland? Here in Spain it is 10 years old for first communion and at least 16 for confirmation.

I don't like how a lot of catholics In Ireland make their children catholic, just because they, the parents, are Catholic. They don't ask the children what they want to do.

Well done OP on listening to your sons wishes

I think it's so wrong to force a child into making their confirmation especially when a big part of going along with it is because a parent hasn't the backbone to stand up to the grandparents. I've seen this time and again.

I think you should support him in not making it. If down the line he changes his mind he can make it then when it will actually mean more to him.

It's 7 for communion and 13 for confirmation in England, not sure about Ireland

It's about the same in Ireland. 7 for communion and 12 for confirmation.

Irish (lapsed) Catholic here and would agree to support him in his decision. By the sounds of it, he's very sure about it. Follow your gut. Have a conversation with him about how the day will go for his twin in terms of fuss and grandparents and make sure he'll be okay with all of that. He'll be pleased you are supporting him. Am guessing they'll probably throw him a few bob anyway 😉

Have you explained the financial cost to him of not making his confirmation? He might choose to do it for the money! Lots of people get married in church only for the lovely architecture, so would it be any different to that? I speak as an atheist though to be fair.

I guess just like muslims make their children muslims and jews make their children follow judaism and hindus make their children hindus. Human nature.

I also refused to be confirmed, my mum took a unique position of simply lying to all the extended family and blotting the entire memory of it out of her mind.

A decade later she still swore blind I had been confirmed and it was only when I challenged her with asking what my confirmation name was that she went quiet.

As long as you're clear with everyone that x is being confirmed but z has chosen not to, and just keep respecting that line it won't go far wrong.

Hahaha, this made me laugh.😂

No it's not human nature. Not all families do it.

My mother is Catholic and she didn't force me to be Catholic. She asked me what I wanted to do. And I chose to not be Catholic.

My friends parents are both Catholic, and my friend is not. They also asked her what she wanted to do

However I've seen Catholic families who force their children to be Catholic.

I don't think he will experience any financial cost! Would you punish one 12 year old for deciding not to undergo a religious ceremony when his twin was, by giving one money and one not?

I wouldn't, but some might I suppose.

I'm from an Irish Catholic family and didn't get confirmed. It was talked about by the older generation at the time and some thought my parents should have forced me to. My dad had been forced to for cultural reasons despite not believing, though, so he backed me up. I explained that I still had respect for the religion and thought it would be wrong to go through the classes and ceremony lying to everyone and making affirmations and promises I had no intention of keeping.

I don't regret it. My younger brother got confirmed purely because he wanted the big party and gifts, and has rarely set foot in a church since! I'll admit to having felt some moral superiority over that as a teenager - the point being, I didn't feel resentful that he had something I didn't. If I'd been made to do it, I'd probably still be carrying negative feelings over it all these years later.

Let your twins make their own decisions. Yes, it might cause a bit of awkwardness and family gossip at the time, if your extended family is anything like mine, but it'll be forgotten soon enough. If atheist twin changes his mind in the future he can always return to the church. You might want to help him with a polite way to explain his choice to believing relatives who are likely to ask him about it directly, to avoid conflict - tact can be difficult at that age. Please don't make him get confirmed if he doesn't believe.

I am lrish but left the Catholic Church years ago. Just to say my dc didn't do the whole Catholic thing and they got absolutely no money from our families when that time came with their class making it etc. We didn't expect it and neither should your ds. All their cousins made it and got lots but that's life.
The whole concept of confirmation is parents make the decision for baptism and then teen makes the decision to continue that by getting confirmed. I think it should be about 15 as its a bit early but l presume they do it to fit in with 6th class. I also think it shouldn't be all kids on the same day but whenever they feel ready if ever.
Let your ds decide. Mention it to the teacher as they may put pressure or the priest calling to the school may. Let your ds know if he changes his mind he can get confirmed at any stage in the future. He can go along to the ceremony and enjoy a family get together. He is probably more in line with the actual teaching that others drifting in to it. Don't make a big fuss as he could actually say he hasn't actually been raised a Catholic anyway and if your dh really cares he can step up for your other boy and bring him to all the services!!