A Catholic confirmation conundrum!!

[Dontlletmedownbruce]

I can't decide about something so am asking for some MN wise words!

I am Irish Catholic in my 40s. Typical of my generation, Catholicism for me is mass at Christmas and Easter, maybe a few random other Sundays and Catholic celebrations like funerals, Holy Communions, Confirmations etc. I was married in a Church. My children go to the local Catholic school and they have been baptised and had their Communion. These events are not just important to me and DH but they are a big deal for our extended family, people travel to these and get new outfits etc.

I have twins who are due to make their Confirmation and one has now decided he does not wish to be a Catholic and wants to quit. I thought at first it was because the alternative activity offered to non Catholics during practice time was better but that doesn't seem to be the case. Not only does he not want the sacrament but he says he is atheist and that's never going to change. He is 12. If he doesn't have his confirmation this will cause complications if he wants to marry in a church, but otherwise doesn't make much of a difference to his life. He can stay at home from mass when we go. The real complication is I will need to go ahead with the confirmation and the family event for his twin who will get loads of money and fuss and he won't, I will also have to explain to everyone that its not his confirmation just his twins and explain his views. I feel grandparents will be difficult about this and it seems like a lot of unnecessary drama. DH is not too happy about this either.

Truthfully, my gut feeling is he is mature enough to make a decision and we should be respecting that. I actually admire his stance, he seems to have really thought it through and makes a very good case. I just don't want him to kick off on the day or turn around in 15 years and be annoyed with us for letting the kid version of himself make a decision like this. I am obviously his parent and I get to choose, I just can't decide what is the right thing to do here.

I'd be interested to know the views of any others who understand the culture and background. Some of my friends are very anti religion and don't understand at all why this would be an issue because they have elected to raise their children without religion and can be a bit sneery about those of us who have to chosen to do so.

I suppose you could call it a teenager hood prezzie? Sort of atheist Bar Mitzvah

@Abhannmor they are big here in north Dublin. .

Every Friday in my children's educate together school a class do a piece about a topic, e.g. bullying, dyslexia, variety of religious or cultural celebrations etc. they sing a couple of songs and a few announcements and pupil of the week awards. Parents are invited and there is coffee etc. starts at 830 and usually can be home by 9. It's nice to see the kids enjoying school and I do love watching how the teachers, on a first name basis interact.

I am always impressed with the principal who only has to quietly wonder why she can't her self talk, said in a quizzical manner. The silence, other than a few little ones stimming, she gains is mesmerising. It shows how much can be delivered with mutual respect rather than the shouting at children I hear from the school behind my home.

I can hear the three schools near me saying the prayers every Friday as they use outside space with a rather eh loud sound system.

These are both primary and secondary. I reckon it probably is more likely to happen if other schools close by have them.

@Marblesbackagain I think 12 is old enough to understand their sibling is getting X because of Y and they are not doing Y. My two year old can understand why she doesn’t get presents or fuss on someone else’s birthday. You sound quite bitter about your ‘bouncy castle Catholic’ family so maybe that’s why you feel the need to overcompensate for your children instead of simply explaining that religious people celebrate things you don’t.

Twins have the same birthday, @BliebenBlieben, hence are having the same fuss, attention and gifts at the same time, so I’m not sure that adds much to your argument. And are you suggesting that twin two is not invited to the family meal or party or however the family celebrates his twin’s confirmation? Some of it will probably take place in their home — are you suggesting twin two is sent to his room? Obviously it’s up to family and friends whether they give money to the twin not being confirmed as well as the twin who is, but I’d be very surprised if the majority didn’t.

@TheErinyes not sure why you think I am suggesting any of that? I presume other siblings and family are attending to celebrate the child making their confirmation. Why would his own brother not go to his confirmation celebration?

When did people start paying kids for First Communion and Confirmation?
I couldn't remember my confirmation and had to look at the certificate to see when/where it was. It was strictly school uniform and deadly serious. I was given a nicely bound Missal.

I remember getting money for First Communion mid 70s @PuddingAunt, but I’m not sure when it started. It was established by then though.

We got a medal and white rosette for Communion , medal and red rosette for Confo. Agus sin sin 😂

Because you were comparing to to it being only the birthday person who gets attention and gifts. These are twins. They’ll have gone through most child milestones together. Obviously the twin not being confirmed will be at whatever is going on.

@PuddingAunt, I made mine in 1978, and we wore white dresses, veils etc, and while I got missals and fancy rosary beads from some relatives and neighbours, some people definitely also gave me money. Though I was definitely at the small beer end of things compared to most people in my class at school.

My main memory of my First Communion is getting into trouble for climbing trees and tearing my dress.

I made £63 for my Holy Communion, I'll never forget it! Can't remember my confirmation so much.

I have an older DS who had his confirmation a few years ago and I remember telling him how lucky he was cos he got money for nothing. By the time of my confirmation I had spent every Sunday at mass my whole life, extra during lent and all the random days too, the Irish one at St Patrick's, the horrendously long Holy Thursday one and the Stations of the Cross on Good Friday. I felt like we earned our celebration and congratulations because we put in the work.

As for the money thing with twins, I have no idea what people will do. I'll try and stay out of that and make sure both are prepped to deal with it. I don't want Catholic twin gloating. By happy coincidence 'atheist' twin won a sum of money in a competition recently so that softens the blow a bit.

@TheErinyes what kind of odd birthday parties do you attend where siblings are forced to stay in their rooms. In most normal families where there is a celebration others know it’s that persons celebration and don’t expect gifts/money/fuss for themselves. My two year old has already grasped this concept. Its the same here - it’s one twins day. I don’t get why they would get equal attention and money etc - hence my initial comment. One is celebrating an event the other isn’t.

Are you Irish, @BliebenBlieben? I agree it's pretty unlikely that grandparents and close relatives in this situation would give money to one twin and not the other because one has decided to take the line of least resistance re confirmation and the other has decided to take a different position.

Hi there,
I'm a confirmed Christian and my son is christened but the confirmation will be his choice - that's the whole point in my view to confirm that you want to be a Christian in adulthood.

I dont think he'll get annoyed at you when he's older as you offered him the choice, there is no expiry date, he can get confirmed when he is 45 if he wants.

I got purely religious gifts for my FHC in the late 1980s (including a Rosary blessed by the Pope which broke the same day). My cousin who made his the same year got a bike.

I can't really remember what I got for my confirmation, but I'm certain there was no money. We were living in England by then and I was 16, which is the age they did it in that parish. I remember getting a couple of holy pin badges from an aunt, maybe a small piece of jewellery from my parents.

Anyway, I'm still a practising Catholic, daily Mass goer, nearly 30 years later, so I guess the lack of money didn't put me off!

Also explaining to the family - he doesn't want to right now, if he changes his mind we'll do another one for him later but it's only girl twin this time.

I am bitter because children in this country don't have access to religious free education because the bouncy castle Catholics keep doing the I don't believe but I am doing it anyway.

And then the irony is they take the places in the multi denominational and suddenly they are all not Catholic 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

It screws all data and means adequate places in education are not available. I feel that is a reasonable thing to be bitter about!

I believe it is fairer to give both, we agree to disagree. I think giving it to one when it relates to religion versus no religion is not fair 🤷‍♀️

The gifts are for the child that is being confirmed? Why would you give them both gifts when only one is doing it? I think that op should certainly not make her ds get confirmed and make sure that the relatives keep their thoughts about that to themselves, but should also manage the expectations to the atheist twin that the other twin will receive presents to celebrate this religious occasion and he will not.

I think the OP should probably ensure he's aware of the possibility of not being given presents (though he will be aware of this himself, as it's the main point of discussion about being confirmed), but, in practice, I'd be surprised if many of the relatives didn't give both twins something, though they wouldn't if neither twin were being confirmed because there wouldn't be some kind of celebration.

Let him make his own choice.

I grew up Catholic, my parents insisted I was confirmed. I havn't set foot in a Catholic Church since (and very few others, and then principally for the party/reception afterwards). It all seemed like a big fuss for something everyone knew I was going to walk away from immediately.

I was married in a register office and we had Humanist celebrations for our babies.

Support him.

I wasn't atheist at the time of my confirmation but I did think it was a huge promise to make at 10/11 years old.

I'm slightly miffed that I am confirmed, I don't like the idea of being counted as believing something I don't.

We were told that in Confirmation we receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit: "wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord".
Not sure I even got those. 😂

Definitely not everyone marries though and they definitely get gifts more than the four figure range. If I had two kids and one didn't marry, I wouldn't give them wedding gifts for not marrying personally.

Your responses are a really interesting perspective. I wouldn't say people who don't agree with my perspective are "dicks" though. Generally there's more than one perspective to things

Out of interest, did you give the other twin money to "compensate" him for not winning?

Absolutely not!! He didn't enter anyhow but I get your point.