A Catholic confirmation conundrum!!

[Dontlletmedownbruce]

I can't decide about something so am asking for some MN wise words!

I am Irish Catholic in my 40s. Typical of my generation, Catholicism for me is mass at Christmas and Easter, maybe a few random other Sundays and Catholic celebrations like funerals, Holy Communions, Confirmations etc. I was married in a Church. My children go to the local Catholic school and they have been baptised and had their Communion. These events are not just important to me and DH but they are a big deal for our extended family, people travel to these and get new outfits etc.

I have twins who are due to make their Confirmation and one has now decided he does not wish to be a Catholic and wants to quit. I thought at first it was because the alternative activity offered to non Catholics during practice time was better but that doesn't seem to be the case. Not only does he not want the sacrament but he says he is atheist and that's never going to change. He is 12. If he doesn't have his confirmation this will cause complications if he wants to marry in a church, but otherwise doesn't make much of a difference to his life. He can stay at home from mass when we go. The real complication is I will need to go ahead with the confirmation and the family event for his twin who will get loads of money and fuss and he won't, I will also have to explain to everyone that its not his confirmation just his twins and explain his views. I feel grandparents will be difficult about this and it seems like a lot of unnecessary drama. DH is not too happy about this either.

Truthfully, my gut feeling is he is mature enough to make a decision and we should be respecting that. I actually admire his stance, he seems to have really thought it through and makes a very good case. I just don't want him to kick off on the day or turn around in 15 years and be annoyed with us for letting the kid version of himself make a decision like this. I am obviously his parent and I get to choose, I just can't decide what is the right thing to do here.

I'd be interested to know the views of any others who understand the culture and background. Some of my friends are very anti religion and don't understand at all why this would be an issue because they have elected to raise their children without religion and can be a bit sneery about those of us who have to chosen to do so.

Thank you all for your posts, I've been reading with interest throughout the day. Sorry I can't answer all individually but it's been really great to get different perspectives.

I now feel more than ever that I need to support him. I will talk to DH and the school. The school will be fine, relieved probably because he keeps moaning about religion. GPs may not approve but they are the types to keep opinions to themselves thankfully so they certainly won't be having a go at him. They might possibly be judgmental of me though. I feel any explanation needs to be from me. Ds will go on a rant insulting any believers and I dont want that, especially as one of his GPs was actually in a religious order once upon a time.

I need to make sure both DSs understand what's going on and talk to them. I'll talk to Godparents too, basically everyone who is invited needs a heads up. The biggest issue here really is the twin thing, they are in the same class and same friend group. If I had 2 in different years it wouldn't be such an issue.

contrary to what someone said above, the sacrament of Confirmation cannot be annulled at a later date.

@CrazyCatLady42
It was me who said that, fellow catechist and trained in canon law. Any sacrament can be declared null if the conditions for validity weren't met when it was attempted. It is extremely rare to present a case for the nullity of confirmation to the tribunal, but it's entirely possible. There would be a burden of proof that would be difficult to provide unless the person had written documentation of their opposition to receiving the sacrament at the time of it happening.

As you say, confirmation is a sacrament of character, but if it's not validly conferred then there's no sacramental character. Remember that an annulment doesn't undo a sacrament, it declares that it never took place.

The validity would be on the bishop or priest though, not the recipient. As long as the sacrament was conferred with correct form and matter, it would be valid. Belief of the recipient is not a factor.

Isn't your son great!

There's something really beautiful about someone being truly themselves.

Ds will go on a rant insulting any believers and I dont want that, especially as one of his GPs was actually in a religious order once upon a time

In which case you really need to talk to him because he shouldn't be going on a rant insulting any believers. He is free to believe what he likes, or not believe in the same way others have the right to believe what they like or not believe. And everyone should be able to do this without insulting others.
He must learn that there is an appropriate time and place to discuss beliefs and also an appropriate way to do this (ie. with reasoned, calm argument not ranting and insulting people) and that the day of his brother's confirmation certainly isn't the time to be having such discussions.

This struck me too.
He definitely mustn't make the day about himself

I think that as you support him and show you respect his decision ( and you ensure that your extended family do the same), the more you can reasonably expect him to show that same support and respect for others.

So that would include his twin making different choices. Even if the choice is one he doesn’t think is ethical eg not believing any of it but doing it for the money.

You can help him work out what to say if someone asks him on the day - it can help to have practised a response to any difficult questions . I don’t know , something like

“ I’ve decided that it’s not right for me to get confirmed at the moment and my parents / teachers / father X support me. So I’m just here today to support my brother and celebrate with my family “.

Or whatever in his own words. You know the kinds of things that people are likely to say to him. Some kids like to have a fall back of something like

“ My mum says I don’t have to talk about it if I don’t want to and if you have any questions, you’ve to ask her “.

Especially if he thinks someone is trying to wind him up rather than a genuine enquiry. Because it’s not really the time or the place to talk about his beliefs or lack of them. That’s hard for a 12 year old at the best of times.

My Dd used that ^ response for years for adults ( mostly teachers ) who asked her inappropriate nosy questions ( not about religion but an equally personal matter ) .

I'd tell the grandparents he's choosing not to be confirmed this year. If he ever wants to be confirmed he can in the future, it's not now or never.

Tell your DS he needs to be respectful on the day, and I'd expect him to attend mass with you, as it's a family event although DS1 refused to attend DDs I think him not making communion will send out a strong enough message to the grandparents for them not to say anything.

My kids were happy to be confirmed, but if there had been resistance, I’d have just dropped it. They had little to no faith by that point and it was quite meaningless.

I gave my dd the choice last year she said no, I respected it, that’s the whole point of confirmation it’s her choice.

Its none of the grandparents business, you tell them it’s his choice as per the Catholic Churches rules.

As for the party, he’s old enough to understand it’s his twins confirmation celebration not his. You also tell invitees it’s just one twin doing their confirmation.

Your making it harder than needs be, I’m an Irish catholic too.

That's an interesting way to see things though not sure what's the best way. He's not having his confirmation so won't get confirmation gifts just like he wouldn't if it wasn't his birthday I'd think? ( though I know they're twins).

That makes sense to me as well. I think it's fine he's making his choice but choices will have consequences. I'd definitely explain gently to him beforehand though that the celebration will be about his brother and be sure he understands what that means on the day. He's mature enough to decide on matters of faith so I'm sure he'll be fine about any material gifts his brother gets. Though he may understandably be disappointed

Him not wanting to be confirmed is quite different from insulting other believers though. I'd say just perhaps be sure there's nothing else going on with him. It's maybe a sign that he's not yet as mature as he thinks if he's not yet able to realise that people make different choices and it's nature to realise and accept that

As someone who has spent 30 years fighting to undo my baptism, communion and confirmation. Paying a lot to barristers it is nigh impossible.

It is an absolute disgrace and a fundamental human right issue that my decision at 18 is not valid.

The Catholic church need to urgently facilitate people to undo their indoctrination from those of us who had little or no choice.

Since l'm not a Catholic l hardly care whether the lad gets confirmed or not so not going to walk past him but in a Catholic family it may be seen as the other twins special day eg like graduation or whatever so he would of course have the party to celebrate his brothers day but not to be celebrated himself. My dc were in Catholic schools and saw all their friends pile it in but they knew that wasn't for them and the extended family didn't hand them envelopes just to make them feel good. They genuinely didn't care, not for one moment. The family are extremely generous to them on all other occasions. It's difficult with twins but they are going to have different celebrations going forward.

I wouldn’t expect people to give both twins gifts - surely it’s a celebration event for one and not for that other. Like if one twin got engaged, married or whatever.

I'm Irish and a similar age and background to you and have kids this age. Let him do his own thing. I would be very proud of one of my kids if they put so much thought into something. My kids only cared about the big day out and the money.

He can still be part of the celebration on the day...it's just the church part that he's not doing. Your relatives will get over it.
In my daughter's class last year there were 2 girls who had made their Communion but decided not to make their Confirmation. These girls still came to the church and sat at the back. They went to the school after the ceremony for the tea and craic. They had lovely new outfits and both of those families had meals out - it's more a celebration of the kids themselves than it is of the sacrament.

@Dontlletmedownbruce I'm Irish, Catholic, in my 40's living in rural Ireland.
I would support him 100%.
I can't imagine his grandparents(who are likely in their 60's/70's) punishing him for making up his own mind about it. I certainly wouldn't give to one and not the other in this situation.
I know my dad would definitely give to both as would my in laws.
He can always do it at a later stage in the(unlikely) event he changes his mind.

As have mine albeit I'm the atheist, so my kids are heathens. I'm just saying it's not the rule for all grandparents. My parents still give me the I am terribly disappointed in you message from time to time, but seem unbothered about my children not being baptised. My sister who has done the full church wedding, christenings and the rest gets it in the neck because their church attendance is patchy.

And apologies, I've mixed you up with the OP name in my post. Wasn't my intent.

He can get his confirmation at a later point - my friend was confirmed at 36 years old.

It's more likely he'll look back and be cross with you for making him do it as it can't be undone.

I'd be very very clear with family what is going on. But honestly - are you really going to make him solidify a religion against his will to keep other family members happy.

It is not necessary to be christened to attend school. Catholic schools cannot discriminate on religious grounds.

Of course they can, and do.

These are the admissions criteria for our local Catholic primary - priority to Catholic children. Sure, they accept non-Catholics but in practice they’d never get in.

This is Craicnet @harrietm87.
Are you in Ireland?
Because @mollyfolk is right.
In ROI Catholic schools cannot select their students on religious grounds.

Ah interesting - no, I’m in England (born in Ireland). Baptising 3-4 year olds to get them into the catholic schools is a big thing here, and presumably what the poster who talked about 3yo baptism was referring to.

Support him and don't make a fuss.
Remind him that he has the right to his own opinion but he is not to make light of nor make negative comment about his twin's big milestone.
He is old enough to decide for himself and old enough to understand the feelings of his grandparents and to have respect for the religious convictions of others.

Insist that he respectfully witnesses the occasion for his twin and tell him that he is at liberty to change his beliefs at any time later in life..

Focus on the twin who is being confirmed
.
Give not too full of an excuse for the other twin. (Making such an earnest committment is not for James just now.)
The last thing confirmation twin needs is for all the family to be talking about his twin deciding to be an athiest.
It's fair that only one twin gets to be special.