A Catholic confirmation conundrum!!

[Dontlletmedownbruce]

I can't decide about something so am asking for some MN wise words!

I am Irish Catholic in my 40s. Typical of my generation, Catholicism for me is mass at Christmas and Easter, maybe a few random other Sundays and Catholic celebrations like funerals, Holy Communions, Confirmations etc. I was married in a Church. My children go to the local Catholic school and they have been baptised and had their Communion. These events are not just important to me and DH but they are a big deal for our extended family, people travel to these and get new outfits etc.

I have twins who are due to make their Confirmation and one has now decided he does not wish to be a Catholic and wants to quit. I thought at first it was because the alternative activity offered to non Catholics during practice time was better but that doesn't seem to be the case. Not only does he not want the sacrament but he says he is atheist and that's never going to change. He is 12. If he doesn't have his confirmation this will cause complications if he wants to marry in a church, but otherwise doesn't make much of a difference to his life. He can stay at home from mass when we go. The real complication is I will need to go ahead with the confirmation and the family event for his twin who will get loads of money and fuss and he won't, I will also have to explain to everyone that its not his confirmation just his twins and explain his views. I feel grandparents will be difficult about this and it seems like a lot of unnecessary drama. DH is not too happy about this either.

Truthfully, my gut feeling is he is mature enough to make a decision and we should be respecting that. I actually admire his stance, he seems to have really thought it through and makes a very good case. I just don't want him to kick off on the day or turn around in 15 years and be annoyed with us for letting the kid version of himself make a decision like this. I am obviously his parent and I get to choose, I just can't decide what is the right thing to do here.

I'd be interested to know the views of any others who understand the culture and background. Some of my friends are very anti religion and don't understand at all why this would be an issue because they have elected to raise their children without religion and can be a bit sneery about those of us who have to chosen to do so.

Isn't confirmation about making your own, adult, informed choice to be part of the faith?

He can get confirmed at almost any time I'm sure if he changes his mind in future.

I wouldn't force it. My children are christened and made their communion but I decided not to get them confirmed because I felt it was a decision they need to make for themselves and 11/12 is too young. They are now in their teens, one soon to turn 18, so I've broached it with them and they, for now, have decided they don't want to be confirmed into the Catholic faith.

I got married in a Catholic church, I was confirmed, my dh is church of England but never made their communion or been confirmed into their faith and there was no issues.

Isn't confirmation about making your own, adult, informed choice to be part of the faith?

Not really, theologically speaking, but a lot of families see it as such.

Let the decision be his and tell the grandparents it's not up for discussion but do explain to him that he may be left out of the celebration by some because they are celebrating the act of confirmation which he has chosen not to participate in, if he's mature enough to make that decision he has to be mature enough to deal with the consequences. Re getting married in a Catholic church, my father was confirmed in 1956 and he was put standing next to an adult who was also being confirmed (Dad was the tallest of the class putting him and the adult side by side meant the man didn't stand out as much), the man was getting married a month later and was converting, you are borrowing worries from the future thinking about his wedding, he might also decide that it is an archaic idea and not for him.

I chose not to be confirmed at 13 after going through the whole preparation stuff. I explained to the priest that I didn’t feel ready to make a personal commitment to stuff I didn't fully understand or necessarily agree with. He took off his specs, rubbed his eyes, and said that it was the first time in his forty years as a priest that anyone had taken the preparation that seriously. He was genuinely supportive and gave me his blessing. It caused a tremendous stink in the family and at school, and I was made to feel a right pain in the backside.

Five years later, after much thought and a lot more experience of the world, I was confirmed because I felt ready. Rejecting confirmation at a particular time doesn’t necessarily mean it will never happen, and if you can show that you respect the child’s integrity on this, you will be helping them to grow in maturity and perhaps faith.

One of my friends, in Latin America, felt the same as your child. She was the only child in a year group of 200 who refused to be confirmed.

Possibly the only child ever in her town!

At 40 she had a conversion and was confirmed at the Easter Vigil alongside her child being Baptised. She speaks about it as one of the most beautiful moments in her life and is so happy that she refused as a child when it meant nothing to her. It gave her the opportunity as an adult, for it to mean everything to her.

Confirmation is the moment when you become a fully fledged Catholic. Similarly, I've had friends who were raised Catholic, are now bitterly opposed to the Church and resent being forced to go through the Sacraments that allow them to forever be officially counted as a Catholic.

I strongly believe you should let your child sit this out. Sure it's awkward. I think a lot of Irish Catholics these days would get it though, certainly those who aren't elderly. Some might even give your kid a wink and slip them 50 euro regardless.

I know it's not the case, but could you soften the blow to your family by saying that he is still questioning certain aspects of the faith and is not yet ready to undergo the very solemn sacrament of Confirmation?

I think it could lead to arguments on the day if he states that he is atheist and the day might then become about him (which presumably he doesn't want) as opposed to the actual Confirmation.

I made my Confirmation (1980s Catholic) when I was 15.
12 seems very young when one's reasoning is still not fully developed.

Irish catholic here. My parents forced it on me when I had made it clear I didn’t want to (not that I’m a non-believer just didn’t want to). Apart from funerals and weddings not been to church since. The good side was it was required for my kids‘ school.
I‘d allow them to choose and take the rap for them on their behalf.

I refused to be confirmed. My parents were furious. It was none of their business. It was my decision to make, not theirs.

your son can always be confirmed later in life. This is not his only opportunity.

If you believe that confirmation is a true commitment to the church, you should be celebrating his choice just as much as you celebrate your other child’s decision to proceed with your religion. Both are decisions made by young people about their own identity and their own futures. They are each showing maturity and that should be honored.

I thought this too. If they did, I would think k less of them and match the money.

DS certainly didn't get any money when he wasn't confirmed (having not been baptised or made his first communion, and having been sent to an Educate Together, so no surprise to anyone), but that's a completely different situation. Almost no one in his class did, and if they did, they did it outside of school. It wasn't happening in his vicinity (all cousins either much older or living overseas) and wasn't on his radar.

The OP's family will clearly be having some form of celebration for the son being confirmed, and family members will be giving the twin being confirmed money -- are you actually saying, @junebirthdaygirl, that you would walk past the atheist twin to give his twin brother a card with money? Or suggest he's left out of the family meal or party? That sounds a bit mad to me.

I wouldn't bank on it, especially grandparents who want to make an explicit point. Irish culture is nothing if not passive aggressive in a lot of ways.

@Dontlletmedownbruce I was made to make my confirmation under the exact same circs. If anything it hastened my mental and physical exit from the church. Weirdly my parents became more supportive as I was got older as they took it quite seriously and took offence at the selective events attendance of my siblings.

You've explained the consequences and how things will likely be on the day. It's worth checking out the point of no return [where the church will refuse to let him join in] in terms of preparation in order to check in again as late as possible. In practice I suspect he'll have to sit through it all at school whether he is a practicing atheist or muslim.

Where relatives are concerned.
"FierceQuiet Jnr has decided he doesn't wish to be confirmed. He understands the ramifications and we are supportive of his decision. If he decides to do so later then we've been assured he can be confirmed when he wishes. We hope you will join us to celebrate with Twin2 on the day. " Firm look, tone and it will blow over. Or potentially say nothing until the day itself albeit his god parents will have to be told they are not required.

The marrying in a church thing varies by diocese for some inexplicable reason but you’re right that it’s a lot more difficult to be confirmed as an adult than when they’re herding them all through it in 6th class

I’d support him in standing by his beliefs. Tbf that’s what confirmation is and should be - not just a day out.

My ds decided not to make his, but changed his mind when I wasn’t shocked enough, mostly to get the money but it is what it is.

In my opinion the catholic religion is a lot of bullshit. It's very unpopular amongst young people in Ireland, due to all the Catholic scandals.

Why would people want to follow a church that has committed so much evil.

That's not been my experience, @TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams. My parents are extremely devout, as are DH's (in their 80s, daily massgoers, and my mother likes nothing better than a Novena), and they've dealt extremely well with their only grandchild being brought up an atheist.

That's lovely! That's real love!

That's accepting the child as he is.

The OP wanted advice. There's plenty of this kind of stuff already on Mumsnet

I’d also add that any of the older generation regularly attending mass are highly aware that the strategy of forcing religion on dc backfired because there’s a whole generation missing from the pews.
you might find they’re more understanding than you expect

Yeah I'm agreeing with her son. He's dead right. The younger generation are seeing through the utter bulllshit of the Catholic church.

Like many people in Ireland I am angry at the catholic church for all of the crap they have done, including hurting many people I know.

You need to support him OP, you can't force religion on people its very personal. None of this means he can't change his mind in the future and be confirmed later in life. The church doesn't close this door on people.
Yes it will upset some of your older relatives I'm sure, but hopefully they will eventually see that it really doesn't matter.

Generally it's 8 now as they are in secondary class and 12 as in sixth.

It won't cause complications if he wants to get married in a church. Baptism is the only requirement for that and even that can be waived if he marries a Catholic. The sacrament will be invalid anyway if he doesn't want it so I'd listen to him and go with his wishes.

I could never be Catholic after the stories I heard. They are the antithesis of God. They are the devil in disguise.

One of my older family member was paralysed from illness and was sent to a Catholic hospital for a year.

Instead of the catholic nuns taking care of the ill children in the hospital . She told me that they used to beat the sick children black and blue.

They are disgusting

He is 12 don't make him a hypocrite standing up saying he believes xyz. Be proud you raised a child who has the capacity and insight to see their path. Fully respectful of their siblings choice also. But to be 12 and say no to the potential shed load of money, that's a well grounded individual witb a strong moral compass. It will stand him well.

I would give short shift to any adults saying anything. One mention would get a swift question about the church wanting hypocrites ?