Referendum!

[springbrigid]

Anyone inclined to give an opinion? I am leaning towards a yes/no vote, the yes to remove what I see as sexist language in the constitution, the no because the government are so appalling in terms of providing services and rights to disabled citizens and I feel the clause is paternalistic and pushes care on families yet again

And the best word they could find out of all of those meetings and the dictionary is "durable"

😮‍💨😮‍💨

@Dublincailin I don't think @springbrigid has a clue who she is talking about or what either, she doesn't read broadly & has dismissed Niall Bolan who as you have pointed out is absolutely relevant here especially due to his unfortunate early circumstances (as he always is imo). @springbrigid is clearly out of her depth in these discussions due to her lack of research & her persistent use of "right wing".

I am reading from everywhere and I am finding the more I read the more I am digging.

If a name is mentioned I google them to find out more , an article, study mentioned again google to make up my own mind.

But accusing and dismissing everyone who does not agree as right wing leaves you in an echo chamber

@Dublincailin same. And it's very easy to read between the lines as every publication & media outlet has it's own agenda. That's where the critical thinking comes into play😁
You are absolutely correct about O Gorman taking money from the mother & baby home fund on the sly & redirecting it to a Transgender group. That is just beyond disgusting, how did he hold his position after that?

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-money-was-just-resting-in-their

A link to an article explaining how Roderic O Gorman was taking funds that were earmarked for mother & baby home survivers & giving the money to Transgender groups on the sly.
VOTE NO NO

@VoteNONO

It was the Magdalene's & Travellers he "redirected " funding from.

He was summoned to PAC last year over it and screamed homophobia.

The M&B is not funded yet. They are only opening the scheme on 20th March. Then claims will sit on the long finger until more survivors die off. Save the state a few €€

RO'g. Is a pure misogynist and anything pertaining to women is open season for him.

It's terrifying that he has control of funding for minorities and disabilities.

@Dublincailin unbelievable. I really feel his days are numbered. As a mother I'm deeply uncomfortable with him being the minister for children especially due to his close friendship with paedophile Peter Tatchell.

Between this & the governments hardline stance on the introduction of the Hate Speech Bill, Ireland need to unite & give them a firm No No on Friday. Enough is enough.

Thanks for the ad hominem attacks.

I've read very widely - I don't need to read gript nor listen to Niall Boylan other than in a perfunctory way as I've nothing to learn from them. I know enough about them to know that they don't align with my beliefs or values and have no desire to give them more clicks. Saying people are ill-informed unless they engage with those commentators is like saying gay people should read homophobic tracts.

Just because someone was born in a particular institution doesn't mean they automatically have anything special to contribute to this specific referendum debate.

My research skills are excellent thanks! And better than whoever said they read gript to find out who's behind the NWCI.

I didn't say everyone who votes no-no is right wing, I said that as per usual on MN, Irish politics threads get derailed by people advocating for right wing views, for example by advocating for more readers for gript and their ilk and then attacking anyone who doesn't want to.

Re. Roderic O'Gorman and 'concern' about his dealings with Peter Thatchell, that is a hoary old far right homophobic gambit. O'Gorman clarified it at the time the usual homophobic slurs were being thrown at him:
“I met Peter Tatchell once and took a photo. That was the only time I have met him. I knew of him as someone who stood up for LGBT+ people in countries where their rights were threatened. ”
More here:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40020641.html

The election next year will be interesting for Greens. Not sure how well they will do.

We have a history of punishing the little party.

I digress apologies.

Back to referendum.

@Dublincailin the greens are absolutely useless & Roderic O Gorman has been the worst minister yet to date in the history of the state.
Taking money (I believe 1.1 million) that was rightly allocated for the Magdalenes & Travellers & having the audacity to redirect to a Transgender group on the sly snows where his agenda really lies.
No confidence in Éamon Ryan either.

No RO'G get out of jail card is scream homophobia.

I stand by my statement, women and mothers need to stay in the constitution .

Women
Mother

#Those words belong to us.

As long as misogyny is ripe in the government women need to protect themselves .

@Dublincailin absolutely. I agree with you.

Also for me I no longer want to see MEN moonlighting as women in the Dáil representing women especially on International Women's Day like what they did last year calling themselves women or transwomen. Making a mockery of us

This year they then decide to go one better & remove the word woman & mother from the constitution on International Women's Day!
Putting the final nail in the coffin of all Irish women & mothers.

VOTE NO NO

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/transgender-issues-should-be-part-of-primary-curriculum-says-childrens-minister-roderic-ogorman/42256827.html

This is his agenda.
@springbrigid And you believe that? Your just really are out of touch. His friendship with paedophile Peter Tatchell is widely known. I think you might need to do some more research & expand your reading.
Remember Roderic o Gorman cannot answer "What is a woman"? A very simple question. And wants innocent young children in primary school to be taught about transgenderism.

In brave new Ireland anyone who doesn't toe the line as drawn by middle class Dublin is 'right wing'. Rural people, the urban working class, M&B home survivors, Travellers, Feminists, anyone who practices their religion, Christian or otherwise - right wing. Possibly 'far right'. But if they do toe the line it's fine, they don't need to inform themselves or question anything, because they're 'nice people'.

Desmond Fennell called it, forty years ago.

@DeanElderberry everytime they use "right wing" to describe anyone who doesn't agree with their woke opinions they are just weakening the expression & making themselves appear rather uneducated in the process.

The Hate Bill Speech is trying to be passed to keep all us critical thinkers in our boxes for fear one of us might expose a truth. Emperors New Clothes Style.

VOTE NO NO to keep our rights as they are. They are trying to erode them simultaneously between these two referendums & trying to pass a Hate Speech Bill.

Why won't they run a referendum on a Hate Speech Bill? 🤔

I was always Left wing (or so I thought) until the Left went batshit crazy....Now I'm not sure where I am politically. But to me it's ridiculous to just brand anything you don't agree with Right Wing. I hate this idea that you have to pick from menu A or menu B, and that's it.
Most issues are far more nuanced than that, and I don't expect to agree with everyone on every single thing. For example if I happen to agree with the Iona Institute on one particular issue, that doesn't mean I'm suddenly a religious conservative.

This ☝️ 100%,

I think Ireland government (& ngos) has swung too far left on the proverbial pendulum. Any push back towards to centre is branded right wing.

I don't think they are left wing. They seem to me to be borderline totalitarian, very very intolerant of differences. I worked with a few people (middle managers, senior to me) years ago who were part of the first Belfield cohort. All Marxists, atheists, all there when the British embassy was burnt down but disapproving of republicans if they showed signs of sympathy for Catholicism. Trendy but narrow minded, and very twitchy about their own status as sophisticated urbanites. Amazing how nothing has changed. As I say, Desmond Fennell called it in the 80s - must see if I can find my copy of Nice People and Rednecks .

@DeanElderberry the proposed Hate Bill Speech is completely totalitarian & completely at odds with the free speech basis on which a democracy is run. You are completely correct. @DeanElderberry I completely know the type you are referring to.

It is funny to see how things have changed. I'm a feminist whose primary interest is the safety, dignity and independence of women. I'm an atheist and I spend a lot of time on my workplace union committee. But because I fundamentally don't belive that people can change sex, I've become a crazed genocidal racist. It's a bit mad, really.

I have been thinking that it's all gone a bit topsy turvy.

Both sides appear to have become emphatic in their belief, there does not appear to be any room for middle ground.

Although I have found ime the so called "right" are more open to listening, they may argue back, disagree etc but will allow you have your voice.

Again ime I can't say the same for the so called "left". It is literally their way or silenced.

I just want to put a reminder up for any voter on the fence regarding Friday....

Roderic O Gorman has refused to release the minutes of a meeting which hashed our the two articles we are voting on. He refused to release the minutes as he said it was not in the publics interest to know what the minutes contained!!!

What are they hiding? Why would they not release the minutes so we all know the impact in the future for us, our children & grandchildren? Obviously the repercussions of a yes vote are too sinister for the public to handle.

VOTE NO NO

@Dublincailin - most of the so called right are just people who disagree with the orthodoxy, which tends towards fundementalism. Fundementalists of all descriptions are rarely open to discussion. A lot of the self-proclaimed left are every bit as fundementalist as any extreme religious sect.