Gender Critical in Ireland Part 3

[VaddaABeetch]

I’m watching RTE news. They mentioned the Garda representatives organisation are concerned about Gender Identity in the workplace. It’s been brought in without consultation & without training.

the Garda Commissioner has said that Garda may be disciplined for misgendering.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

That's a good idea. Do you have the email address?

I clicked into the corrections link at the bottom of the article and used that email and sent email below.

Dear all

I am saddened and dismayed at lack of clarity and full facts in the article below nowhere is it mentioned that the accused is a transgender woman. This is a factual piece of information the Journal chose to leave out

RTE the national broadcaster reporting on the same trial acknowledged the accused is transgender, a full report of the facts pertaining to the trial as all reporting on same should be.

Woman+left+'shaking+and+crying'+after+fellow+inmate+in+Limerick+allegedly+threatened+to+rape+herhttps://www.thejournal.ie/woman-threaten-rape-limerick-prison-barbie-kardashian-6521754-Oct2024/

Sadly this article yet again has reminded me of the Journal’s bias and therefore not a trustworthy and reliable news publication.

Nothing will come of it except maybe added to the hate mail file but I feel like I have used my voice.

It's [email protected] and put a link to the article in the subject.

This was my email:
Can you please correct the ridiculous misrepresentation of women in your recent article about Barbie Kardashian's trial.

At no point in this article is it made clear that Barbie Kardashian is a 'trans'woman - a biological male. His behaviour is (and always has been) typical of male pattern violence and while I think he should be accommodated in a mental health facility as opposed to prison, he certainly shouldn't have been housed in a female prison, posing serious risk to inmates and staff.

Your refusal to clarify for your readers the SEX of this offender says a lot about how you view the protection of the safety & dignity of women and girls in Ireland. I notice you didn't have any article on the first day of this trial, and I'm presuming this is because the day was taken up with much discussion around the fact that the defendant is male and should not have been in a womens' prison in the first place.

Other media establishments have managed to correctly report the facts of this case, you need to do the same.

But will it make some people think ‘hang on a female prison officer is in fear of being raped by a female prisoner, how can that be?’

I don't think so, given that he threatened to rape her "with an implement"

I think a lot more people might read it and think 'my goodness women are becoming far more violent than they used to be'

I agree, in 2022 she is on the record as saying she is a woman and women rape using objects.

This statement is in connection to what she plans to do to his mother.

www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40928486.html

Correct he not she plans to do to his mother.

Day 3 of the trial
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/prison-officer-was-terrified-after-alleged-threats-by-barbie-kardashian-court-hears-1686636.html

Also fair play to everyone who complained to the journal, they haven't corrected that report but in todays reporting they acknowledge that BK is trans https://www.thejournal.ie/barbie-kardashian-6522360-Oct2024/

The cynic in me thinks the only reason she is acknowledged adequately is because it is a prison guard giving evidence, therefore more worthy.

The Journal is nothing than the mouthpiece for failed journalists, which can't and won't allow comments/opinions if they do not fit their agenda or as in this case turn off the comments option altogether.

Have they turned the comments option off? That would be very encouraging.

They have 2 articles on this the older one says transgender female and the newer one just uses "she" throughout. No photos, they show photos on every other article.

I think that's because it's an ongoing trial so comment isn't allowed in case it strays into contempt. We need to be careful about what's posted here too, MN often have to remove posts on ongoing criminal investigations or trials (even in Ireland) which is understandable if frustrating. The journal is an absolute rag and had been borderline supportive of BK. Is the latest article not almost word for word the same as the Breaking News one? I'm very sleep deprived and just skimmed so may be wrong.

Disappointed (well that's an understatement) that the Hate Crime Bill was passed last night and we now have further gender nonsense woven into our legislation. I emailed all my local politicians about this (and got no reply from any of them) and now it's done.

I'm not a SF supporter (actually I am struggling with who I'll vote for in the upcoming election but that's for a different thread) but their spokesperson said “Now we have Minister McEntee trying to introduce a new definition of gender, despite there being no consensus as to what that means,” Mr Carthy said, pointing out that the Bill defines gender as including transgender, and a “gender other than male or female.”
“Minister, most people do not understand what that means precisely,”

Indeed 🙄

All well and good saying that but Sinn Féin is very much TWAW. Was that a solo run on the part of the spokesperson I wonder?

And obviously the reason most people don't understand what it means is because it makes absolutely no sense to completely redefine a word in a vague, circular way.

Oh I know and it's one of the main reasons out of many that I would never vote SF, but there wasn't much push back on the definition of gender so I quoted it.

If this was happening in another country I would be watching on with interest but given its my home I'm horrified and I just can't see how this is going to play out. Nobody seems to care that women have lost their sex based protections in law and I don't know what we can do about it!
*obviously people on this thread care, but politicians don't seem to care and the general public don't seem to be aware because the mainstream media aren't writing about it.

Is there a record of who voted which way? I had a little rant at the hairdresser earlier and said I'd be putting in a demand that protections based on sex get put back into the equality act if anyone comes canvassing to my door.

Me too @DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry for all the good it will do.

It was voted through by a majority of 78 to 52, I'm not sure how we'd find out which way individuals voted.

I did find a document on the oireachtas website and interestingly it has 'sex characteristics' as a protected characteristic but I've never come across that before and it's not in the EA? From that document:

In this Act, “protected characteristic”, in relation to a person or a group of persons,
means any one of the following, namely—
(a) race,
(b) colour,
(c) nationality,
(d) religion,
(e) national or ethnic origin,
(f) descent,
(g) gender,
(h) sex characteristics,
(i) sexual orientation, or
(j) disability.

(d) “gender” means the gender of a person or the gender which a person expresses as the person’s preferred gender or with which the person identifies and includes transgender and a gender other than those of male and female,
(e) “sexual orientation” has the same meaning as it has in section 2(1) of the Equal Status Act 2000,
(f) references to sex characteristics shall be construed as references to the physical and biological features of a person relating to sex

So now we have gender, sexual orientation AND sex characteristics! They've made it all even more complicated 😫

I haven't seen 'descent' before either, or colour. 'Family status' used to be in the old EA act. decades ago, as was membership of the travelling community.

So do we now we have protected characteristics that are different from what was listed in the EA? How does that work?

@LifeInAHamsterWheel

In the bit you quoted, where it says ‘In this Act’ is it the EA that’s being referred to? I mean, I assume so, but it’s a bit bizarre that the lists don’t match.
Does it say when the document you found was written or updated?

No, it's the Hate Crime Bill - it lists the protected characteristics that it includes. I found it on the Oireachtas website.

It's the first document on this list (updated last night)

docs

Okay, thank you, sorry, I misunderstood.

Is sex characteristics meant to be a more inclusive version of sex I wonder🤔

But what's an inclusive version of sex? If sex is binary, male or female, what else can it include?
I can't see the point of having any reference to sex at all when the definition of gender is so open. At least in the UK they have reference to 'gender reassignment' and then a definition of that. We seem to just have circular definitions that don't actually mean anything. They've made an absolute mess of it.

Nice little earner for lawyers.

Interesting to see how it hold up a challenge, prosecutors will have to prove it is based on the protected characteristic within the bill

Not to mention it creates a hierarchy of victims.

So 2 people at bank link one straight one gay, both are robbed the crime is theft robber wants money doesn't care about anything else, it is not hate crime or can both be prosecuted as hate crime

If a gay man slaps a straight woman is it a hate crime.

So many questions and scenarios, not sure it is workable

But what's an inclusive version of sex? If sex is binary, male or female, what else can it include?

Oh I agree.
But I meant it seems to be playing with words again…trying to broaden the definition of ‘sex’ in the same way some have a broader definition of ‘woman’.
Maybe?
Otherwise I’m not sure why the phrase sex characteristics was chosen rather than just saying sex, unless those who drafted it were simply needlessly verbose (I doubt it).