Gender Critical in Ireland Part 3

[VaddaABeetch]

I’m watching RTE news. They mentioned the Garda representatives organisation are concerned about Gender Identity in the workplace. It’s been brought in without consultation & without training.

the Garda Commissioner has said that Garda may be disciplined for misgendering.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Trans groups are really pissed off by all these mystery women 🤣 very annoyed also that Livelive had a speaker from the Natural Women's Council

Oh, I thought a mumsnet poster was responsible for that email onslaught!!

Thanks to @Genesis1v27 for the PDF of that Garda document, I wonder why it was taken down...

I'm still just gobsmacked that we have ended up in this position. From that document: With the enactment of the Gender Recognition Act 2015, any person over the age of 18 can now selfdeclare their Gender of preference and be treated legally as that preferred Gender. As such, people can apply for replacement birth certificates, driving licences, passports and other legal documentation that reflects this change. Ireland is one of the few countries globally where a person can declare their true Gender without medical intervention. So many people that I've (dared to) spoken to about this issue are totally unaware of this legislation! Some have gone off clearly thinking that I'm confused and have got it wrong - I don't blame them! Reading that, it just baffles me that anyone could have thought it was a good piece of legislation to enact. I honestly don't recall any public discussion about and clearly, from speaking to people at work and in various other settings, I'm not the only one. It's ludicrous. If it wasn't so bloody dangerous it would be funny.

Here’s that IT letter in response to J O’C’s article in case anyone can’t get past the paywall.

Sir, – In blaming JK Rowling for the abuse she is constantly subjected to for airing her views on the trans issue, Jennifer O’Connell furthers the age-old practice of blaming abused women for the violence and shaming they are subjected to and shows her very narrow understanding of the issues (“JK Rowling’s ‘witch trials’ are of her own making”, Opinion & Analysis, April 2nd).
O’Connell notes that, “After four years of criticism, online fury, abuse, threats of violence, and even book burnings, her faith in her own position is undimmed.” In most contexts this observation might be applauded but O’Connell frames it as Rowling’s failure to be persuaded that she is complicit in the abuse because she won’t back down. Because she keeps “going back for more”.
Making the decision to “enter the fray” is not a decision that is weighed or taken lightly by those who agree with Rowling. Livelihoods and reputations are at stake yet many women have chosen to speak. Does O’Connell blame us for the abuse we have subsequently been subjected to? Does she maintain that we are orchestrating the vitriolic backlash we have experienced for publicly defending the right of women and girls to spaces where male-bodied people are not allowed?
O’Connell further claims that “one side gets to walk away” from the issue while the other side “has to live it”. This is wholly untrue. It sweeps aside the trauma of detransitioners who realise that they were mistaken when claiming to be the opposite sex.
It ignores lesbians who are demonised for asserting attraction to female biology and it negates the lingering impact of repeated abuse.
Instead of blaming those on the receiving end of online bullying, columnists in the State’s leading paper might be better employed facilitating a frank public discussion on the impact of gender theory on all our lives. – Yours, etc,

I didn't hear about GR Act 2015 until 2021 I think, when I heard about it on some podcast and I thought this can't be real. I went and looked for it to convince myself it's there and it's true. Many people don't know even now, they don't have a clue about it!

It doesn't make any sense. To be so easy to change one's identity just because they say so.
We had a writer in my birth country, he wrote in the second half of 1800s. Lately, every day I think of one of his characters in a play, an electoral comedy which hasn't lost it's pertinence even today. The Drunk Citizen. He popped-in now and than mumbling " what about me?! who am I voting for?!"
This is me now. It seems that all politicians either agree with women cancellation, either keep quiet and express no opinion

But the thing is as it's not part of the constitution it can be reversed or abolished. Women cannot compromise any longer. People power.

ladymactíre and LifeInAHamsterWheel I was exactly the same, I had no idea (and nor did anyone else I have spoken to about it) that the GRA was even a thing until about 2 or 3 years ago. It makes me so angry as they basically snuck it in by stealth.

Then you get the arseholes saying things like 'it's been around for ages and nobody cares until now' which ignores the fact that most people had no idea what it even was or that it was the law. Of course there are no objections to it if people are unaware that it even exists.

There is a report by the Dentons law firm, (commissioned for the International Gay and Lesbian Youth Organisation, i think) which outlines exactly how to get this legislation passed - basically it advises keeping it out of public scrutiny. Which is so sinister. They also gave Ireland as an example of how this was done with success.

The truth is, they know well that when the general public get wind of this, they won't agree to it. So their legal advice is to just bring it in without anyone knowing about it. That's not democracy.

Interestingly Dentons have apparently since deleted the document from their website, but it should still be on the IGLYO website in all its ridiculous glory.

Panti Piss retweeted another clanger! A co-ordinated campaign from the far right!

Thank you for the thread.

Just had my local Fine Gael td at the door😁 needless to say I gave him hell! He said he would certainly approach the debate in the Dáil again. I most certainly wasn't fobbed off but I let him know he certainly won't get my vote as I want proper change.

Well done @Imarealwoman . There's no left of centre option here and I hate the rest with equal venom so I feel free to attack canvassers on this issue.

Delighted he knocked on my door. My husband was leaving to bring my young girls to their swimming class (9 & 11) perfect timing as I was able to point out that they would be using the changing rooms alone as my male husband can't enter but why the hell should my daughters be put at risk because trans can enter now.. He did say I had very valid concerns & they will need to be more debate. I argued with him for over 40 minutes & he did say not to write him off just yet🤔

Nice work @Imarealwoman 👏🏻👏🏻

https://gript.ie/garda-commissioner-withdraws-gender-pronoun-plan-after-backlash/

Nice little victory with this too. The tide has turned.

Good on you @Imarealwoman..
It will be top of my list when they arrive at my door too..

well done @Imarealwoman ! They will have to listen if they want to keep warm seats under their arse!

They all have the same language. Whoever questions the cult is far right, white supremacist, fascist, bigot, and they change from aggressive rhetoric to "oh, poor us" in a second.

Yes, it's interesting how the narrative goes - I think they call it Schrodinger's terf - we are simultaneously so insignificant that we are barely worth consideration, and yet so terrifying and scary that there must be a co-ordinated conspiracy behind us.

A bit like at first there was no debate, now that didn't work it's just throwing a load of insults and hoping they stick.

It's like trying to reason with an angry toddler.

I think the best response to No Debate is : there is no debate about trans rights. This is about the women's rights.

And children's rights.

Exactly @Farmageddon . Even the angry toddler might stop and listen for .01 seconds 😁I've seen so many videos with fully grown persons screaming their head off. Just screaming. How is that normal?!

I'm listening to Posie Parker again, this time interview on Marshall Matters - fair play to the podcasters for giving her a platform - and they got to talking about the doctors and gender affirming procedures. The lack of ethics and morality in those surgeons removing healthy body parts from such young people makes my blood boil. To consciously mutilate someone for money

She's starting a party of women 😁well done to them!

Just coming on to say hi and mark the new thread.

I am so glad I cancelled my Irish Times subscription when they started all the pro trans stuff last year. The Gript article was great. I get even more upset when I see women standing up for men against women, than when men do it. Of course, I believe that this is part of a survival instinct for women that is deeply ingrained - you only survived by cosying up to the strongest men, the victors, and throwing other women to the wolves.

But even with all that, it is the lack of critical thinking or basic understanding that really angers me, we are wasting our tax on education if this is what it churns out. My teen and pre teen DC have a better understanding of the issues and more empathy with women than this 40 year old mother .

I don't think this has been reported on RTÉ, I searched for it yesterday?
It is a positive step. It also opens the opinion that if public servants such as the Garda Síochána are not being forced to use pronouns then neither should teachers.
I wonder what Enoch & the Burkes have made of this this reversal.

They even create threads of how anti-science and and far right we are.
I have qualifications in a scientific discipline and I don’t take some NGO employee or Humanities academic who support’s experimental treatments for the young very seriously.

The more they call us far right the more ‘far right’ loses its power to be seen as a negative. Was it after the abortion referendum we all turned far right?

The tables do seem to be turning here & the mood has shifted. Scotland was the wake up call, the government now need to work for the majority on this. We have so many genuine concerns that get shut down & unanswered. It's basically put up or shut up.

As there is no applause function on MN, I will make do with re-posting this.

In my profession, I am a mandated person and I have a legal obligation to prioritise children's safeguarding.
There is no debate about this.
Many other regulated professions, in Ireland, would do well to remember their legal obligations wrt safeguarding.

A story that seems to have got lost under the weight of Jennifer O'Connell's column plus the Gardai retracting their "pronouns guidance".

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/04/03/libraries-at-centre-of-culture-wars-as-protesters-try-to-remove-lgtbq-books-for-young-people/

I have read some of the books that were in the YA section of my library (following some pointers on MN).
I wouldn't point my 20year old in the direction of those books, due to graphic depictions of oral sex.

Yes, children need age appropriate sex education.
Many of the books on our libraries shelves are not the way to provide it.

https://gript.ie/liveline-to-parent-dont-read-out-the-explicit-sex-stuff-in-books-for-12-year-olds-in-libraries/

The gript have it covered too, including some extracts of the books in the link attached. Entirely unsuitable for impressionable teenagers in my humble opinion, far too graphic.