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Gender critical in Ireland

1000 replies

Muppetryofthepenis · 11/06/2022 16:57

Just wondering if there are many others out there. Was reading a political pamphlet and it was going on about self ID and how important it is. I just don't agree and think it's so damaging to change the definition of what a woman is. And the definition of a man too, I guess. Sex based rights are under threat in Ireland. Fed up with all the nonsense. Wondering what other Irish mumsnetters think.

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38
WaveyGodshawk · 07/03/2023 17:59

PleasantBirthday · 07/03/2023 16:02

If parents are worried about what teachers might be forced to teach on this subject, the INTO's glassy eyed presentation is an indication and it's pretty terrifying.

Where did you see this @PleasantBirthday ?

PleasantBirthday · 07/03/2023 18:04

It was on Twitter. I just googled, it seems as though it may have been deleted.

WaveyGodshawk · 07/03/2023 18:26

Hmmm. I've a couple of teacher friends I must ask them what they know about it if anything.

butterfliesanddoves · 07/03/2023 18:41

The video was called Lucy to Liam. It seems to have disappeared though.

Genesis1v27 · 07/03/2023 19:07

butterfliesanddoves · 07/03/2023 18:41

The video was called Lucy to Liam. It seems to have disappeared though.

I found two reports on one by that name:

INTO CRITICISED FOR TRANSGENDER “LUCY TO LIAM” LESSON

INTO SEEMS TO REMOVE CONTROVERSIAL “LUCY TO LIAM” TRANS KIDS CLIP

WaveyGodshawk · 07/03/2023 19:13

Is the fact they've removed it slightly encouraging I wonder?

Genesis1v27 · 07/03/2023 19:17

WaveyGodshawk · 07/03/2023 19:13

Is the fact they've removed it slightly encouraging I wonder?

I doubt it, it (or something worse) is probably kept for in-class viewing now. For kids' eyes only.

WaveyGodshawk · 07/03/2023 19:25

Genesis1v27 · 07/03/2023 19:17

I doubt it, it (or something worse) is probably kept for in-class viewing now. For kids' eyes only.

Safeguarding nightmare :(

Genesis1v27 · 07/03/2023 20:13

The Countess group have published template letters for parents to object or opt their children out of SPHE/RSE classes:

thecountess.ie/opt-out-letters/

WaveyGodshawk · 07/03/2023 20:17

Genesis1v27 · 07/03/2023 20:13

The Countess group have published template letters for parents to object or opt their children out of SPHE/RSE classes:

thecountess.ie/opt-out-letters/

Thanks for posting that genesis

VaddaABeetch · 07/03/2023 20:22

Just about to post that template! Thanks @Genesis1v27

johnnytightlips · 07/03/2023 20:32

Leopardprintonsie · 07/03/2023 10:19

I can't believe how little press coverage this is getting. What is the agenda behind it?

I came here to say the same thing.
There was the article about Roderic O Gorman by Mark Tighe in the indo on Sunday and I have not seen or heard of this since by any other media.
RTE has really lost all credibility and impartiality with anything trans related.
The future of this country is seriously frightening, it really is.

Leopardprintonsie · 07/03/2023 20:43

@johnnytightlips it seriously is frightening for young girls. What does their future hold? The gaa, the schools, the government all seem to have the same agenda. No one knows what that is as the media are in on it & refusing to report. It's all being pushed quickly & silently. They are bypassing the parents & going straight for our kids.

Leopardprintonsie · 07/03/2023 21:01

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11818581/Parents-fear-11-year-olds-scarred-life-graphic-sex-education-lessons

Looks like very similar happening in the Isle of Man. Disgusting read. Telling children there's 73 genders & a child removed from class for pointing out to a drag queen there's only 2...

johnnytightlips · 07/03/2023 21:03

Leopardprintonsie · 07/03/2023 20:43

@johnnytightlips it seriously is frightening for young girls. What does their future hold? The gaa, the schools, the government all seem to have the same agenda. No one knows what that is as the media are in on it & refusing to report. It's all being pushed quickly & silently. They are bypassing the parents & going straight for our kids.

I would be a fairly open minded liberal sort but I would now be labelled as a far right terf because I do not want this taught to my children. Nobody I know in real life agrees with these changes either.
The hate speech laws are also terrifying as any debate about this will be stifled.
I can't get my head around it and i find myself thinking who or what is behind all this '..adjusts tinfoil hat'

Leopardprintonsie · 07/03/2023 21:05

@johnnytightlips my husband called me "an aul biddy" today after my rant.. I said all I want is a traditional education for the dc, sure it did us no harm & he said I was trying to keep the dc in the dark ages... He hasn't a clue as the the extent of this & no one knows where it will end up.

WaveyGodshawk · 07/03/2023 21:15

@Leopardprintonsie show your dh that photo of the trans individual playing gaa and ask him would be be happy for your girls to play against him in a few years time!

Leopardprintonsie · 08/03/2023 01:43

www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/08/20/gender-ideology-a-boon-to-big-pharma-and-threat-to-parental-rights/amp/

I sent him this article too, a pretty terrifying read as to what may come to our lovely shores...

butterfliesanddoves · 08/03/2023 08:28

That's a scary article. We can already see the attempt to remove parents rights. Roderic and Leo seem to be in favour of compulsory teaching of gender identity. We also see it with the removal of parents consent for Self ID for over 16s.

"Education
This is the text of Article 42 of the Constitution of Ireland:

"1: The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children.

2: Parents shall be free to provide this education in their homes or in private schools or in schools recognised or established by the State.

3.1°:The State shall not oblige parents in violation of their conscience and lawful preference to send their children to schools established by the State, or to any particular type of school designated by the State.

3.2°:The State shall, however, as guardian of the common good, require in view of actual conditions that the children receive a certain minimum education, moral, intellectual and social.

4:The State shall provide for free primary education and shall endeavour to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiative, and, when the public good requires it, provide other educational facilities or institutions with due regard, however, for the rights of parents, especially in the matter of religious and moral formation."

butterfliesanddoves · 08/03/2023 08:58

Stephen Fernane on Norma Foley, who says whatever it suits on the day

"Are gender identity and parental consent at odds with each other?

Minister for Education Norma Foley's recent comments on parental consent and gender identity have hinted that there may be a lack of joined up thinking within Government on what is a highly emotive topic in society.

Following last week's announcement that an updated Social Personal and Health Education (SPHE) curriculum will be ready in time for the Junior Cycle in September - and updated for the senior cycle in 2024 and at primary level from 2025 - Minister Foley put parental consent front and centre of the new curriculum.

It would, she said, give parents the right to withdraw children from classroom discussions on such sensitive issues as gender identity, pornography and sexual consent.

The National Council for Curriculum and Assessment (NCCA) is preparing the curriculum but many parents have already voiced concern over the curriculum to Minister Foley. In response, the Minister was clear in giving assurances that parental consent will allow for a child to be removed from the school environment while such classroom discussions are taking place, should that be the parent or guardian's wish.

However, in an Dáil statement by Minister Foley last month in response to a parliamentary question from Deputy Jennifer Whitmore, the Minister's response seemed - at least on the surface - at odds with her SPHE position given the pending legislation on gender identity rules for children under 18s.

Minister Foley said the Programme for Government gives a clear commitment to gender recognition for 16- and 17-year-olds.

Under the current Gender Recognition Act 2015, individuals may only apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate, to legalise their preferred gender in the eyes of the state, if they are 18 years of age.

Individuals aged 16 and 17 must require parental consent and a court order to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate.

Minister Foley said the Programme for Government will aim to make it 'less onerous' for individuals under 18 to legally switch genders.

She also announced that counselling supports would be made available to families in the event of children transitioning genders.

The draft heads of the bill to implement the changes have already been approved by Government and are undergoing pre legislative scrutiny, under the remit of the Minister for Social Protection. But a fundamental question arising from the proposal remains: if adopted, would state law still require parental consent for a child under 18 to change gender?

While Minister Foley promises that the SPHE curriculum enshrines a parent's right to withdraw a child from debates on gender identity in a classroom, revised changes to the Gender Recognition Act hint at eroding parental consent altogether in more extreme cases of gender dysphoria among minors.

Following Minister Foley's Dáil comments, Professor Dónal O'Shea - senior consultant endocrinologist with the National Gender Service (NGS) -heavily criticised the proposals and warned against children changing gender in isolation from family support.

He told a national radio show that teenagers considering transitioning had better outcomes when supported within a family environment.

Prof O'Shea said that to allow a child to obtain a Gender Recognition Cert - without the support of parents - could create grounds for conflict.

I contacted Minister Foley's office for a response to what many fear is a loss, by stealth, of parental consent regarding children who wish to change gender.

Again, Minister Foley reiterated the Programme for Government's commitment to making the process of self-declaration for under 18s 'less onerous'.

She also stated her primary objective is for school communities to be places of openness and inclusion; places where a welcoming, safe environment for all students - irrespective of background, gender or ethnicity - is the norm.

While Minister Foley's statement said she strongly believes in the importance of parental consent - including in the context of the Gender Identity Bill - she does not indicate whether or not the new legislation will protect, in law, parental consent in the case of under 18s changing gender.

Perhaps it will. But what parents really want is clarity and a clearer understanding of what is meant by making it 'less onerous' for a child to change gender.

usuallydormant · 08/03/2023 09:31

Happy International Women's day. And a reminder that only 23% of Irish TDs are women. Not surprising women and girls needs are not considered properly in policies perhaps. TBH I was a bit shocked when I saw this map put out by UN Women. Red is not a good group to be in.

Gender critical in Ireland
Farmageddon · 08/03/2023 10:12

It's a sign of how much I distrust this government that I roll my eyes sceptically when I read stuff like this - www.rte.ie/news/2023/0308/1360897-referendum/

A referendum on 'gender equality' is not going to benefit women explicitly. It seems like they are full steam pushing gender everything only now that men can identify into women's roles.

If they really want to protect women and girls, they need single sex protections and provisions, based on biological reality - not gender nonsense.

LifeInAHamsterWheel · 08/03/2023 10:21

I'm skeptical too.

From that article - "Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said: "For too long, women and girls have carried a disproportionate share of caring responsibilities, been discriminated against at home and in the workplace, objectified or lived in fear of domestic or gender-based violence. I am pleased to announce that the Government plans to hold a Referendum this November to amend our Constitution to enshrine gender equality and to remove the outmoded reference to 'women in the home', in line with the recommendations of the Citizens Assembly on Gender Equality."

So, the public line will be that this is to benefit women & girls. They'll make it all about the removal of 'women in the home' which of course people will approve of. But what else will be changed that won't be discussed in the literature and online debates etc.? Look at what was pushed in under the guise of the 'gay marriage' referendum. We all thought that's all it was about - to allow gay people the right to marry. Logical. Sensible. Kind. who isn't for that?! But I don't recall any mention of transgender/self ID on any of the literature/bill-boards/radio & tv ads etc during that whole campaign. And look what we were left with Hmm I just don't trust this Government to tell the truth about what this referendum will really mean for the women & girls of Ireland.

PleasantBirthday · 08/03/2023 10:24

Also, it appears that they may want to introduce the concept of gender rather than sex to the constitution.

johnnytightlips · 08/03/2023 10:27

Its depressing, what's worse is there is no viable opposition in the Dail to this. The only party I have heard even question some of this stuff is Aontu along with a few independents.

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