Am I being unreasonable about our household spending?

[CalmCanyon]

I’m interested in getting a reality check on our household spending because I’m struggling to work out whether I’m being unreasonable or whether our costs really are out of line.
We’re a family of four plus a dog in the South East of England. One of our daughters is at university and isn’t home most of the time, and her spending isn’t included here as she has her own finances.
Our monthly spending is roughly:

• Finances (mortgage, council tax, utilities, insurance, phones, broadband and other regular household bills): £1,833
• Groceries: £869
• Shopping (clothes, household items, Amazon, etc.): £583
• Transport: £253
• Eating out: £109
• Home & Family: £78
• General: £68
• Children: £32

Total: around £3,825 per month. The grocery and shopping figures are what concern me most. I don’t actually do most of the food shopping or day-to-day purchases—my partner does. As the sole earner, I see the overall numbers each month and I’m finding it increasingly difficult to make the budget work. I’ve tried to have calm conversations about our spending and whether we could cut back, but they usually end in disagreement. From my perspective it’s becoming a financial issue; from hers it doesn’t seem to be viewed in the same way. Unfortunately it’s started to affect our relationship, and at the moment it feels more like we’re housemates than a family working towards the same goals. I’m genuinely looking for outside perspectives.

At this point I don't think I'd be wanting to marry someone who was openly saying they'd leave me if they could, was not interested in having any meaningful conversation with me about anything, and was expecting me to bankroll them ad infinitum.
Presumably the OP's partner had autonomy to😊 agree to children without marriage, and also input into registry office v big do so I'm not sure OP is necessarily to blame for that.

Op, it sounds like you love her. Try to love her even a little bit more. I know it all seems awfully hard now but good times will come around again. She'll hopefully get back on track once she's over the health scare and manages to reinvent herself career-wise. Give her the time and grace she deserves as your partner in life through thick and thin.

Maybe she ought to love him though a bit more and stop getting themselves into near debt?

As you asked, the usual reason that a SAHP feels undervalued and offended when a wage-earning parent asks them to contribute financially is because in their view they are already making at least an equal contribution of their labour to the household team (possibly many more hours of more physically demanding labour), and so this request strongly implies that none of that is actually being seen and valued by their supposed partner and they are instead being seen as contributing nothing.

In this case active SAHPing seems to have long past and so perhaps you should talk to her and understand what she specifically believes her current contribution is to your household team - it won't be nothing, but it might be illuminating to see what areas you have a mismatch of perception on.

Here’s a more balanced and reflective version that keeps the focus on your own experience while acknowledging hers.
So, I had a conversation with her yesterday. Unfortunately, it didn’t go well.
I became emotional and angry. To be honest, I don’t think I’ve ever been that angry in my life. It was completely out of character for me, and she’s never seen me like that before.
I tried to explain how frustrated I’ve been feeling about our current situation and why I felt we needed to talk about our finances and where we are as a couple.
From her side, she spoke about feeling unloved and unvalued. She said she had given everything to raising our children and had always supported me in whatever ways she could. I genuinely believe that’s how she feels, and I can understand why.
The conversation quickly became heated, and we both ended up shouting. Looking back, I think we were both speaking from places of hurt rather than really listening to each other.
I also felt that, at times, she was deflecting away from the issues I was trying to raise, and she has acknowledged that herself on a few occasions. At the same time, I also believe she genuinely feels alone and lost at the moment, which probably makes these conversations even harder for her.
In the end, the conversation didn’t bring us any closer. There was a lot of emotion, a lot of shouting. I’m not proud of the way I reacted, and I’ve apologised for raising my voice. It wasn’t how I wanted the conversation to go, and it certainly wasn’t the outcome I had hoped for.

How many more excuses can she find for not working? Yes sahm contribute by caring for the children and home but the child is at an age to not need that constant care. Millions of mums and dads do both.

I think honestly therapy together is probably the only way you’re going to be able to calmly discuss the problem and both feel listened to, but if she refuses to go then I honestly don’t know how it’s going to be fixable.
I get where she is coming from to a certain extent, many of us give up a loved career to do something else that works around family life. Prior to having my children I loved my job, it was low paid but meaningful to me.
It made financial sense when the kids were small for me to be the one to change sectors and work around them in part time jobs rather than my husband who earns far more than me.
However that shouldn’t be an excuse to continue spending money you cannot afford, refuse to discuss budgets etc a families needs change, and she hasn’t changed with it.
I love my family but they are not my sole identity, your partner sounds like she is being a little manipulative ‘I poured everything into my family and supported you and now you’re trying to change things’

Heated rows aren't nice but they do clear the air and give the opportunity now to sit down and find a way forwards now you have each said your bit.

What comes over is that your partner isn't willing to change .
Life has changed. Your girls are growing up.
Her role as the main carer and you the breadwinner are changing.
Most women go through this and find a way forwards.

It sounds as if she has been 'allowed' to indulge her freelance work and whatever was bringing in some income and now isn't.

There are so many ways she could find a way back- there are loads of career coaches (some are psychologists) who work just with women like her; building confidence, creating a plan to get back to work etc. I wonder if she's aware of those?

If she's not willing to try to change, I think you need to accept it's over. Couples counselling may help but the fact she's not keen maybe shows she knows her behaviour won't stand up to be challenged or explored by someone else. Not ciriticised but being accountable for what she's doing in the context of a relationship.

Have you suggested Relate or other counselling?

You seem to be able to formulate your thoughts in a balanced and sympathetic way in writing. I completely get that you shouldn't have to, but would it be worth trying to put your point across in writing? It might give take the heat out of the situation, and you could ask her address specific points in her own (sensible) time? You can't force her to respond but it would at least demonstrate conclusively that you've tried.

Good idea.

I suggest you apologise and propose speaking again, but this time, no focus on the past and what has gone before. Focus merely on the future and current situation and what changes are needed.

To be fair to OP I can imagine they entered the conversation very calm and open and then got progressively angrier on the basis of his partner's responses to the point where it all blew up.

I imagine a letter isn't going to help much either because she is flat out unwilling to change anything about her life

IME lots of SAHMs claim they gave up careers for their families but the reality is that they weren't that career focused to begin with. There's plenty of ways to balance work and being a present parent when you have teens. My mum was a SAHM even though I was at school and taking myself to extra curricular activities between 8:30am-7pm, it made her world very small and insular, which led to her getting overly involved in my affairs because there wasn't enough to occupy her time with. She would have claimed she gave up her career to look after kids but she worked less than 1 year in business pre kids and never tried to get back into a corporate job once we were older. Even if it's a confidence issue after taking time out, you need to at some point take ownership of the situation and dip your toes in. Noone else can do that for you.

FML Op, she feels unvalued and unloved, christ I am sure many of us have felt like that at times. I know i have. I still went out to bloody work though....... its all her thoughts, her feelings to make further excuses as to why she cant possibly work amd yet you still write like shes the victim because you shouted??? You must have the patience of a saint because I would have gone nuclear by now.

You're the scapegoat @CalmCanyon .

Your partner appears to be suffering from a bit of a midlife crisis, where the identity she had- mum, carer, etc- is changing . On top of that she's lost her freelance work which was a creative expression of who she is. Now you're challenging her , she's lashing out.

Being freelance and in something creative is a bit of a luxury and a lifestyle choice. It only works if finances allow it. Not many people have that choice. You've basically bankrolled her for years so she could do that- the pay-off being she also did most of the childcare ( we assume) while you focused on your career which sounds successful.

This is one model of a relationship. But it changes. You're now entering a new phase when although your girls are older, costs may increase. Many families find the teen and uni years the most expensive.
Is your daughter living at uni or at home? Are you helping pay her costs?

The answer in theory is simple- you cut costs and budget within your means OR your partner gets a job. Or both. She needs to consider that her role is changing. She's no longer a hands-on mum the way she was 10 years ago.

Many women struggle with this and it goes one of two ways-the choice is to stagnate, refuse to adapt, contribute nothing other than managing the home or they reinvent themselves and start a new phase of their lives where they are an independent adult.

Did your partner work before you knew her? What did she do and can she pick it up again?

I had a lot of thoughts about this as well and came to similar conclusion.
When I started conversations about money challenges, it brought up a lot of comments from her that she’s supported me throughout years by raising children and the whole conversation reversed around her being unvalued. This also brought comments about what other people lifestyles are i.e. comparing which I knew from the outset does not lead to objective and logical outcome.
I have to admit that I’m very frugal myself . Mainly due to upbringing and also due to current situation. There were few instances where I have gone too far with this and this was not proud moment.
In the beginning it brought my self esteem to bottom but I was able to get through it whereas she has stayed in the mindset and with family and body changes this has added additional complexity.
Our daughter is at uni, I was able to save the fund for her rent costs so we would not have to worry about.
My partner used to work. We’ve met each other quite young. I was 22 and she was 19.
We built our future together with first house, then when first daughter was born we decided that I will support family.
When we were talking she thinks as coming back to work as low paid cleaner type job.
I can help her with retraining or courses, there are many other fields she could be good at.
I believe she’s currently seeing herself as a victim. I have mentioned her that when we had last heated talk.

What you've described was very common- traditionally the 'wife' (she's not officially) takes a career break when the children are young.

But that's changed quite a lot and many women now have no choice but to work and pay for childcare as soon as their babies are a year old or younger.

The pattern with my friends ( we are many years older than you, when childcare was less available) is that is was normal for mums to take time out of work, but gradually return when the children were older. Some didn't go back to work full time but they did contribute to the household income.

You don't say if your partner went to uni, had a career and worked as a professional before you had children. Is there nothing she can return to by updating her skills?

Or, can she use a degree to retrain?

This is all the practical side but if you aren't agreeing on what next, you need to consider where you go as a couple. If you split up she will have no choice but to support herself.

Does she even see the fact that she's spending too much? Can she change that?

What is she the victim of?

She's been allowed to work at a hobby and earn not very much for years.
Yes, she been a full time mum - but that was her choice and you earned enough to allow her to choose that.

Now it's being called out she throwing her toys out of the pram and blaming you- for what?

The going out to work is still a red herring because you originally didn’t ask her to get a job…. You asked her to be more mindful of what she was spending!
I assume when she was comparing your set up to others, she wants to be able to do the same as they are but I’m assuming they have more income to enable their lifestyle. She/you can’t live the lifestyle of others she’s comparing you to unless she goes out and gets a job.
If she doesn’t want to get a job then she can go through the budget with you, it’s quite simple really and I’m not sure why she still doesn’t ’get it’s.
She is coming across as childlike I assume that’s because she stopped working in her early 20’s. Even my 13 year old has a little Saturday job, budgets and listens to advise on how it’s probably not a good idea to blow a days wages on pleasing himself stuffing sweets, that saving a portion for something he really wants is a good idea.
I would have spectacularly lost my rag by now because she is being so utterly selfish!

My friend is a self employed cleaner up North and charges £16 per hour - she's on a better hourly rate than when she was an office administrator, so it doesn't necessarily have to be the lowest paid job (which is a common misconception)

Update:
So, after our last argument and a few weeks of distance, we finally had a long conversation. I went into it trying not to argue or defend myself, but mainly to listen.
She told me that she had been unhappy with the way I have worried about money over the years. She feels that my attitude towards money restricted some of the things she wanted to do. She said that at times I behaved like Scrooge, which, unfortunately, I can recognise in some past situations.
She also believes that I will not change.
She said that whenever we went on holiday or went out, she often felt that I was not able to fully enjoy the experience because I was always conscious of how much we were spending. She said that she used to dream of the day when we could do these things without me worrying about the cost, but she can no longer imagine that happening.
She feels that we have become two very different people. She said that her sense of trust and safety with me is gone. She also said that during our last argument, she felt that the situation might have become physical because of me.
She also said that she sometimes felt my relationship with her was based on convenience. When I started talking about money and finances, she felt that her contribution to our family was devalued.
We also spoke about the possibility of her working. I suggested things such as design work or something related to fashion, as these are areas she has an interest in. However, she does not feel that, in her current state, she is capable of doing that. At times there was sarcasm in the conversation, which I pointed out because I found it hurtful and demeaning.
My overall impression is that she still places most of the responsibility for what has happened in our relationship on me. There were many expectations she had of me and of our life together that she feels I failed to fulfil. I have told her that with my income and our circumstances, some of those expectations were simply not financially possible.
I believe our relationship as a couple is over. I am now trying to process everything that has been said, understand my own part in what happened, and work out how we move forward from here—particularly as we still have a family and practical matters to consider.
I don't think this conversation gave me much hope of reconciliation, but perhaps it gave me more clarity about how differently we have experienced the same relationship.

@CalmCanyon Wow. As an outsider I must say that she sounds very entitled and immature. You are therefore forced to be the mature, practical person which are qualities she resents you for having! Luckily for her you seem very calm and reasonable because there are plenty of not so nice (but true) things you could have said to her. Madam doesn't want to work but she's not happy about having a budget ..hmmm..

You need to leave. Just rip the bandaid off.

Op I did the raising children bit and then slowly went back to work never really earned to my full potential did interesting things but we had a shared mentality over money never went into debt had very modest holidays indeed I was better at looking ahead financially even though I earned much less. I think we both appreciated each other’s contributions even if life had its tough moments. This is all in the past for us now but it’s so hard to have a partnership where both people don’t take responsibility for financial stability. I’m sorry things have not worked out for you both but I agree it doesn’t sound like anything will change while you are together. I’m afraid she will be in for quite a shock when she has to manage her own affairs.

Twice now you have suggested that she will get half of the house and she can last on that for 3/4 years - surely she would need to buy somewhere to live with that money
and it appears the home is not owned outright as you speak of mortgage

so just exactly how much are we talking about ?

And at her age, what type of low paid min wage job do you think she will be walking into ? after not being at work for 20 years
You talk about training etc. but in what.

Does she have a degree and did she ever work in the field her degree is in ?

What did she freelance in ?
What was her small business in ?

My sympathies are with her once you said

'She told me that she had been unhappy with the way I have worried about money over the years. She feels that my attitude towards money restricted some of the things she wanted to do. She said that at times I behaved like Scrooge, which, unfortunately, I can recognise in some past situations.
She also believes that I will not change.
She said that whenever we went on holiday or went out, she often felt that I was not able to fully enjoy the experience because I was always conscious of how much we were spending. She said that she used to dream of the day when we could do these things without me worrying about the cost, but she can no longer imagine that happening.

And are you promising us she is safe:

She also said that during our last argument, she felt that the situation might have become physical because of me.

My sympathies are not with her at all, but with op, as the partner sounds very entitled.

”She feels that my attitude towards money restricted some of the things she wanted to do.”

”I was not able to fully enjoy the experience because I was always conscious of how much we were spending. ”

”I have told her that with my income and our circumstances, some of those expectations were simply not financially possible.”

So she wants to spend the money freely, but with no regard about who’s paying or what their budget is, and assumes that Op is a golden goose. However, she doesn’t accept that there is a limited budget, or us willing to contribute to it. We’d all like to live a life without money worries, and spend what we want, but that’s not reality.

Op - I’m sorry it’s come to this, and wish you all the best for the future.