Am I being unreasonable about our household spending?

[CalmCanyon]

I’m interested in getting a reality check on our household spending because I’m struggling to work out whether I’m being unreasonable or whether our costs really are out of line.
We’re a family of four plus a dog in the South East of England. One of our daughters is at university and isn’t home most of the time, and her spending isn’t included here as she has her own finances.
Our monthly spending is roughly:

• Finances (mortgage, council tax, utilities, insurance, phones, broadband and other regular household bills): £1,833
• Groceries: £869
• Shopping (clothes, household items, Amazon, etc.): £583
• Transport: £253
• Eating out: £109
• Home & Family: £78
• General: £68
• Children: £32

Total: around £3,825 per month. The grocery and shopping figures are what concern me most. I don’t actually do most of the food shopping or day-to-day purchases—my partner does. As the sole earner, I see the overall numbers each month and I’m finding it increasingly difficult to make the budget work. I’ve tried to have calm conversations about our spending and whether we could cut back, but they usually end in disagreement. From my perspective it’s becoming a financial issue; from hers it doesn’t seem to be viewed in the same way. Unfortunately it’s started to affect our relationship, and at the moment it feels more like we’re housemates than a family working towards the same goals. I’m genuinely looking for outside perspectives.

So she won’t go to counselling, won’t get a job, won’t talk about budgeting and spending…no, this is not a person who deserves any consideration. You’ve been patient, you’ve shown understanding, you’ve given options, you’ve tried to talk. What’s she done apart from refuse every attempt? That’s not the behaviour of a supportive partner.

Holiday expenses are separate - these usually come off from my bonus.
This year is a bit different because we don't seem to plan any due to disagreements.
In addition Christmas expenses are also separate.
When I look at whole Christmas expense usually it came is around £2500.
Mind you my daughter needed new laptop for her uni which was expensive.

So if she won't talk about it, won't work, won't cut back - have you asked her what her solution is? "DW, there is more money going out than coming in, what do you think we can do about this?'

If her answer is a shrug and 'dunno', then I don't think you taking control of the budget could in any way be called controlling. Because you wife seems to be very good at the 'that won't work for me, because....' but it isn't all about her, is it? It's about the family as a whole.

Why don’t you hand all budgeting responsibility over to her as a starting point? I mean, she has the time!

Tell her that you really need to start saving some rainy day money, agree an amount that would be prudent to save, and then let her figure out all the rest.

She will soon be able to see that the numbers just don’t add up and then she can take some responsibility by either earning or reducing spending.

It would also stop you feeling like the world is on your shoulders and make you more of a team.

It’s one thing having just one person being the sole earner, but to also have that person being the only one with sight of and responsibility for the household budget is quite unreasonable.

The groceries bill seems insane to me. We are a family of 4, albeit no pets and our children are still primary school aged, but we spend about £500 max on groceries (including cleaning products, toiletries etc.). I'm sure you could easily bring that one down.

Your eating out budget looks fine, that's what, one or two meals out a month?

Your mortgage and bills are about £400 more than ours, although perhaps you live in a more expensive house than us... You could probably shop around for some better deals though.

She is right when she says she had contributed to the family as a SAHM. Lots of things tgat should not be undervalued.
I am slightly puzzled that this problem has suddenly arisen. You have been living on one income for many years. What has changed.
A bit of me feels that deep down you are wanting to call time on this relationship .... that this issue is just a peg to hang this on. You talk about bumps in the road and not knowing whether this or another issue might be the final one... but the assumption that one of them will be is very much there.
I think you need to be honest with yourself here and really ask yourself what you want. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with this woman or do you want out?

You mention that she looks after your youngest child- how old are your children? Or is there a disability to consider?

Things don’t necessarily get logistically easier once all children are at school, but it should free up time during the day for her to back to her freelancing work, or something similar.

@Inertia
The op says My daughters are in early teens and another one in uni. so secondary age and adult.

So klarna is a pay plan usually on clothes sites, pay in 3 installments so essentially debt. You've already mentioned vinted amd clothing so it is suggesting most of the £600 is going on clothing or similar.

Without sounding rude, you need to find a back bone. Is it not abusive to sit her down and make her look at black and white figures and explain misc spending. All this bollocks of identity and needing validation etc is abusive because shes manipulating you. You say half the house would be hers, is that because she put in a substantial deposit because if you are not married the split isnt the same.

Do you have a cleaner? Expensive cars? Why would a civil ceremony be invalid if yous did get married.....in your situation, I categorically would not!!!

Quite frankly I would be fucking resentful if I was working my arse off for someone else to spend it all.

Youngest daughter is all well. In early teens.
In theory, she could take care of herself if needed with going to school.
I think my partner lost her sense of purpose tbh with kids growing up, one going to uni and her dwindling business. Plus perimenopause.
This combined with our conversations about finances might be a bit too much for her.

Well the best way to get her sense of purpose back would be to get a bloody job!

Hi OP

In the nicest possible way, you need to stop worrying about being non-confrontational or controlling.

HER behaviour is very controlling - won't work a regular job because she likes to be 'flexible', doesn't want to 'lose her identity', but won't sit down to discuss budgeting because she's 'worried what it might lead to'.
The only possible outcome of a spending review that she could be worried about is that she would need to reduce her spending.

But it's obvious that that must happen.

She is behaving totally selfishly, OP, and you need to put your foot down.

Set up a new account for just you, have your salary paid into that, pay all of the standing charges from that.

Use the joint account purely for house expenses, ie food, basic toiletries and household supplies.

Any purchases needed for the DC to be discussed and agreed in advance.

And she can open her own account, and you can pay in a discretionary amount for her incidentals (coffee with a friend, an occasional Vinted purchase), say £50-100 per month. If she wants any more personal money she can fund it herself - pushing her freelancing again, or getting a job.

If she is not willing to accept this, then I think you need to consider your future.
You are not a couple with a joint vision, pulling together, you are out on your own trying to pull a dead weight up a hill...

How do YOU feel about separating?

she does not want to be put in a frame of working certain hours as it would put her in situation where she cannot be flexible.
Stopped working regular hours nearly 20 years ago.
She likes independence and use her skills in her own time.

Don't we all?!! Unfortunately, that's not the way the world works. It sounds like she could live that lifestyle, if she cut back on expensive groceries and clothes... but she can't have her cake and eat it unfortunately. I can sympathise with her, as I am currently looking for full time employment after being self employed for 12 years - the business I am in is simply dying, the work isn't there anymore. My youngest child is still in preschool, of course I will miss the flexibility, the feeling that your time is your own, being my own boss etc., but the reality of life is the bills need to be paid. If she really doesn't want to work, she'll have to cut back. She could even do some part time work.

The arrangement to stay at home to look after the children usually lasts until the youngest is at school, and at the very, very latest, senior school.

I’m guessing her side job was ‘creative’ .

I don’t know what’s brought things to a head, or has triggered this change in attitude. But you realise the situation isn’t right. Only you can fix it.

Is the 'I'm in perimenopause and therefore cannot think about anything which might distress me' coming from her? Because, while peri can be unpleasant - how does she imagine single women get through?

Tough shit that it's too much for her. It's clearly too much for you. What will she do if the stress gets too much for you. You're not doing her any favours by pandering to her nonsense.

Well if you feel that way, you don’t think she’s doing anything wrong and you don’t want to do anything about it - suck it up buttercup. Stop moaning on MN about her

Reading between the lines (and I could be very wrong), I have a similar dynamic with a friendship circle. The non-working spouse (NWS) is incredible, highly intelligent (both intellectually and emotionally), generous and generally wonderful (and certainly not profligate). Not working has had benefits for both their family and beyond but it's been very hard on the working spouse (WS). And the tensions are really showing now their children have flown the nest. It goes beyond the financial. The NWS is really isolated and it's all a bit suffocating/unlikely to get any better and, honestly, it's not been good for their children. Could maybe suggesting some voluntary work or something like becoming a family magistrate so your partner gets out of the home a bit more as a first step?

She's had no income for 3 years, she's taking the piss and you're tiptoeing scared to say anything. Now menopause will be her excuse not to work, then it'll be too old. Seems she think working a regular job is beneath her, I'd not be tolerating this, time to get a grip and get her told to contribute to the family, poor example for your daughters.

I also think unless you decide to start a separate bank account and only pay in enough for monthly expenses your financial situation will never be sorted.
Every conversation seems to get shut down and you just take it.

You have a DP that either thinks you're earnings are that high she doesn't have to worry about budgeting...or she's just plain selfish and doesn't particularly care, as the saying goes, it's so easy to spent someone elses money.

‘… a but much’. You’re protecting her and also entitling her.

I don’t what you’re afraid of, but from reading your replies, I suspect that nothing is going to change. Whenever you’ve mentioned it before, you’ve accepted her responses/excuses, or backed off when she’s thrown a hissy fit. You’re obviously not happy about the situation, which is why you have posted, and maybe you wanted to check that your views aren’t selfish or controlling, and are valid. However, the resentment has started to creep in, and I can tell you’re now viewing your partner in a different light.

You either think there is a big problem, hence this post or there isn’t, which is what your later posts suggest as you’re making so many excuses for her and think people are basically being unkind and over the top.
Your DP wont work, won’t go through finances and agree a budget, won’t go to counselling etc that’s a lot of ‘I’m not doing that’ without compromising.
I can assure you there is a whole heap of us who are perimenopausal, working, looking after children, the wrong side of 40, sometimes questioning our life choices, having health scares and still managing to have grown up conversations about budgets, heading out to work and getting on with life.
You are making excuses for what is happening within your own house. Being avoidant is one thing, being miserable but not willing to confront issues is totally another.
You can either tiptoe your way through this for the next through years, continuing as you are to avoid upsetting someone and ending up struggling financially or you sit down and tell her that you cannot afford to keep going as you are and if she won’t agree to anything, decide if your future lies with someone who thinks so little of your welfare.

You say this but if you split up you might not be willing to give eg pension benefits. She was stupid to take all this on without the legal protection of marriage.

You are right saying that I do view in different light.
The responses were not accepted so easily as we had arguments about it.
But this is not sustainable.

Any SAHM here where husband is main earner?

I sympathise with your wife since I'm in her position (except we got one DS16 autistic and not independant). But I find her very unreasonable to not realise that your outgoings need to come down with only one salary. You sound financially savvy, as is my dh, and I am happy for him to deal with all finances. He does one big shop (he insists on this) per week and I fill up during the week with my monthly "allowance" which is for myself but since I don't enjoy shopping/fashion/superficial dravel I tend to buy nice food, books and gym membership with that. I don't have a car and dh's is a company car but it's easy to get around by bus/tram here. If I wanted more money than I would need to work. But then our teens, especially DS1, would need to get more independant. And I would also expect dh to step up with household chores which he wouldn't want to. So the status quo works fine for us. For you it doesn't because your wife is a spender and you need to save some every month which you aren't doing right now. Make a plan about how much you want to save every month and tell her you got x for the rest. If she's not happy tell her to get a job.