Am I being unreasonable about our household spending?

[CalmCanyon]

I’m interested in getting a reality check on our household spending because I’m struggling to work out whether I’m being unreasonable or whether our costs really are out of line.
We’re a family of four plus a dog in the South East of England. One of our daughters is at university and isn’t home most of the time, and her spending isn’t included here as she has her own finances.
Our monthly spending is roughly:

• Finances (mortgage, council tax, utilities, insurance, phones, broadband and other regular household bills): £1,833
• Groceries: £869
• Shopping (clothes, household items, Amazon, etc.): £583
• Transport: £253
• Eating out: £109
• Home & Family: £78
• General: £68
• Children: £32

Total: around £3,825 per month. The grocery and shopping figures are what concern me most. I don’t actually do most of the food shopping or day-to-day purchases—my partner does. As the sole earner, I see the overall numbers each month and I’m finding it increasingly difficult to make the budget work. I’ve tried to have calm conversations about our spending and whether we could cut back, but they usually end in disagreement. From my perspective it’s becoming a financial issue; from hers it doesn’t seem to be viewed in the same way. Unfortunately it’s started to affect our relationship, and at the moment it feels more like we’re housemates than a family working towards the same goals. I’m genuinely looking for outside perspectives.

I was a SAHM when my 3 dc were born and up until my youngest was 7 and my older two a tween and a teen. In our early days, we were skint almost all the time but over the years, my DH became a high earner and we managed on his salary. This was in the very early 2000’s, so going back a bit. I went back to work p/t and my salary helped pay for our extras plus I was able to be around for after school care. I also built up my NI contributions and began paying into a pension when I went f/t after a couple of years p/t. The ‘extras’ my salary paid for included things like new furniture, meals out and family days out and childcare during school holidays.
More importantly, working gave me an identity so that I wasn’t just my DC’s Mum or DH’s wife, I was contributing to our lifestyle and felt that my role was important.
Now, our DC are all adults and have a great work ethic that they learned from seeing us work hard. They all have excellent financial sense and will be teaching their own DC the same things they learned.
DH & I both retired early and live very comfortably on our occupational pensions and we both have full state pensions to look forward to in 4/5 years time.
OP, your partner needs to find her identity outside of the home, she needs to contribute to the household and build up her NI for her future. Believe me when I say life flies by; one minute you’re in your 40’s and living for today, the next you’re in your 60’s wondering where the years have gone. I really can’t imagine having to live on the bones of my arse at my age now. I realise that’s the case for many people though and how fortunate I am, however, your partner is relying on you without taking any responsibility for anything in terms of your finances and future. It’s time for her to step up and start taking responsibility for your joint finances and if she can do that, she may well realise how good it will make her feel.

Well if it’s that hard for her to retain her identity at work, then perhaps you need to stop subsidising her.

@CalmCanyon DO you think she's afraid? I know that if I would have to work now it would be really hard after 20 years not having worked. I'm terrified but would do it if we needed it. Also, my diploma isn't transferrable so I would have to do a minimum wage job. The only thing that I would like to do is TA- that way my experience bringing up an autistic child could be useful.

@theygrewupthe toilet roll Is perfectly fine you get different types if my fussy dh uses it without complaining it means it’s good. The meat is also very good unlike Aldi where I’ve bought in date meat and it’s been rotten when I go to use it. I’m not going to list ever single think that we eat as that would bore the pants of everyone, but dishes I make are chicken parmasan , steak pie , meatballs , lasagna , roast chicken . Always do a pasta dish once a week. Home made pizza . I make food that my family will eat otherwise it’s false economy

Be aware OP that you only get NI credits these days until your youngest child is 12. The policy changed in 2010.
I strongly recommend your DP to get a state pension forecast. It sounds from your information that she will be 11 years short of the 35 years needed.

You only get National insurance credits until child is 12,so from when your eldest was born to last year as you said youngest was now 13. You still get child benefit if applicable until end of secondary education

She's much more of a "live for today" person and often says that none of us knows what tomorrow will bring, so she'd rather enjoy life in the present.

But of course she can 'live for today' because you're bringing in a decent income! But her behaviour is like a teenager, not a woman heading to 50.

I find your situation as you describe it very frustrating, Despite all your threads on this, you aren't making any changes either in your thinking or behaviour.

This is not a cost of living issue per se. Your other posts about your relationship show that it's about your relationship. You are not pulling together as a couple.
She's said she would leave if she could.

Have you asked if she loves you?
Do you do things together that you both enjoy?
Have you sat down together and seriously talked about if this relationship is sustainable?

She will NOT get the full state pension. Not enough contributions.
In the next 25 years, pension age will increase. It's already predicted to be 70 and may even go higher.

She's staying with you as you provide a roof over her head. She has no income, no savings, no pension.
You're not even married so she's in a very vulnerable position.
She'd get nothing , legally, if you split up. Unless of course you decided to give her half the house equity.

But worst of all she isn't even trying to change this.

I understand she's lost confidence and going out to work is hard. MANY women who have been SAHM feel like that. But they make an effort.

She could start in a small way, even doing some voluntary work in a charity shop. Just to get out and meet people.

But the bigger issue is do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn't engage as an equal partner and appears not to care about you?

We’d all like to be a lady of leisure, wafting around at home, spending money etc, but needs must. Instead of ‘loosing her identity ‘, she’ll be gaining a new one.

Getting a job could be daunting and she hasn’t got any recent work experience, so perhaps she could start by volunteering a couple of days a week in a charity shop, for example.

You need to take a step back and start to imagine being apart.
You met in your teens and have been together 25 years.

People change.

The reality is that the children held you together. Now they are older and one has left home, the cracks are showing.

Can I ask, is there a cultural element going on here too?
You aren't married. But you say your partner would expect a large wedding (hence not getting round to it.)

Your partner has put herself in a very vulnerable position by being 45, no income not married, no savings.

She is totally dependent on you. So she's not going to leave.

To be honest, I have thought about what living apart might look like and have considered different options.
The reality is that we're already living together without really living as a couple. We still sleep in the same bed, which feels quite surreal given how emotionally distant we've become.
I've found myself avoiding her and keeping my distance.
As I mentioned before, I know there will have to be a conversation.
I just need time to think about how to approach it.
When I had longer conversations, they've almost always ended in tears.

Maybe you need to consider some therapy for yourself?
I've noticed throughout your posts that you appear to avoid confrontation or difficult conversations. Are you aware of that?

Is that why you talk to people on a forum rather than your partner?
You've been given loads of advice but you seem unwilling to act on any of it.

Conversations ending in tears are not a reason to avoid talking.

Of course there will be tears. But if that's her way of shutting you up, you need to be ready for that, not back off or put the issue to one side.
You should work on moving forwards.

Your partner is not going to initiate any break up. She's already said that because she has nowhere to go.

The reality is that if you split up and are unmarried, she has no claim on anything unless the house is a joint tenancy /tenants in common and you split the equity.

If you split up she will have to work. If you stay together she needs to work because her spending is getting out of control.

You have to decide if you want to split up. If you can't face that, it looks as if this relationship will carry on as it is for years - maybe till she meets another man (or you meet someone else) that forces one of you to take action.

I am quite self-aware about the situation and have had therapy in the past. If I feel I need it again, I wouldn't hesitate to go back.
We've had a few long conversations about where we are. She is aware of what a separation would mean financially, including that she would be entitled to half of the house. At one point she even said I would keep the whole house. Knowing her, I believe she genuinely meant it at the time.
As I mentioned before, she had a significant health scare with complications following surgery a while ago. I think that experience has probably influenced her outlook on life. She seems to have adopted more of a "live for today because none of us knows what tomorrow will bring" mindset.
Personally, I think therapy could help her process some of what she's feeling, but she has no interest in it and refuses the idea outright.
I also think she had a picture in her mind of where she'd be at this stage of her life, and reality hasn't matched those expectations.
At the moment, it also feels to me as though she sees herself primarily as the person who has been hurt in the relationship. Whether that's entirely fair or not, it's how things feel from my perspective, and it makes it difficult for us to move forward together.
One of the reasons I started this thread was to hear different perspectives, including ones that challenge my own thinking. I'm taking the feedback on board, even when it's difficult to hear.
I know I can only take responsibility for my own actions and the things that are within my control.

She has her own small business albeit now in recess. Some of the years would count as NI contributions.

I know I can only take responsibility for my own actions and the things that are within my control.

Correct.

But you are not taking any action.

You've spent at least a month here (other threads) where you have not, it appears had a conversation or moved anything forwards.

I'm sorry but a 'health scare' and surgery are not reasons to behave as she is.
Was it suspected cancer? Did she have a biopsy or similar?

'Living for today' does not exclude saving for the future so you both have a comfortable retirement .

It does not mean she takes no role in contributing to finances.
And given she wants to be a good mum and homemaker, she's doing the exact opposite.

Because your younger daughter will know things are not right. She will feel the tension even if you are not bickering daily. Kids pick these things up.

Also she's setting a bad example to your daughters.
She's not showing resilience, determination, ambition. Mothers have a big impact on their daughter's futures and careers. The are role models.

She's living off you. She has no financial independence. She is stuck in a relationship which isn't making her or you happy.

IF she wanted to live for today she's be getting out. She'd not be wasting time on a relationship that appears to be over. She'd be retraining, or taking a job (assume she did have a job before she stopped work 20 years ago) .

You say you can change your behaviour - but are you?

Why are you not sitting down with her and saying -

'Look, we need to have a very serious talk about where we are and where our relationship is heading. I'm not happy, you're not happy,it's not right to inflict this stressful set up on our children.
We either work together - and that includes you getting some work as well as reining in your spending - or we split up.'

You are both unrealistic about the state pension. It will be delayed by the time she is eligible to 70. It may not even exist in its present form at all.

In today's money it is under £13K a month. That gives a standard of living that is only just above the breadline. Unless she plans to live off benefits in middle age and old age, she needs to wake up to reality.

Regarding pension it will be unlikely to be 70 more like 68 when it will kick in.
State pension for me would only be supplemental as I do have good private company pension which looking at projections will be more than enough if it goes as it is projected.
I was planning to retire earlier around 60 though when kids are grown up.
The house could be sold or used as supplemental income.
We are not originally from UK and there are options to retire in home country.
The house costs there are considerably lower.

She isn’t interested in talking about pensions. Whenever I’ve tried to bring the subject up, she just shrugs it off. It’s almost a taboo topic for her.

You're both mid 40s.
The current state pension age is 67.
Do you really think it won't rise in the next 25 years?
There has been a lot about this in the media and it's projected to be 70.

I assume you are both Asian hence the reference to a large wedding being the norm.

However, this is not relevant to your relationship.

You need to talk to each other properly.

You seem to have am ambivalent attitude. You've got a good pension. If you stay together, she will benefit. If you go back to your home country at 60, the state pension isn't relevant.

It's a bit late to drip feed and say you are not from the UK (I assumed Asian or Chinese based on the necessary 'big wedding') and your plan to retire at 60 and return home.

You're still talking as if you'll be a couple.

What if you split up?

And given you're a high-ish earner, it's not credible you have avoided a wedding for 25 years. Won't both your families pay towards it if that's the culture?

' She has her own small business albeit now in recess. Some of the years would count as NI contributions.'

Not at the same time as child benefit tho - surely one does not accrue 2 lots of NI contributions ?

Yes I am ambivalent because of situation.
Also not Asian nor Chinese. Would have been church wedding with family celebration - but this is not relevant at the moment.
I will be entitled to UK state pension abroad due to treaties.
If there were changes to age like 70 there would be options for adjustment to lifestyle ot part time work for me, etc.

Okay so that's about you.

I'm still not sure why you are unmarried. You seem to have ignored the impact on your partner if you split up. And so has she.

She is reliant on a handout from you if you split up.

Would you do that even though legally you are not obliged to?

You're clearly an intelligent and thoughtful guy. But most couples marry when they have children or at least their partners work so they have their own income.

Do you have a Will?
If not, she would be left with nothing and it would all go to your daughter who is over 18 and your next of kin.

She would receive half of the value of the house, which is rightfully hers.
That would be enough for her to be financially self-sufficient for around three to four years, even if she didn't work initially. However, at some point she would need to start supporting herself.
I would, of course, continue contributing towards our daughters' upbringing, but beyond that we would each be responsible for our own finances.
I also have a will in place, under which my entire estate would go to her, including my pension nomination.
From a tax and inheritance perspective, it would have made sense for us to get married. The reason we never did wasn't because I didn't want to spend my life with her.
Neither of us wanted a simple registry office wedding, and having the kind of wedding we would both have wanted would have been a significant expense. Realistically, most of that cost would have fallen on me, as there wasn't anyone else who could contribute financially.

It's good you have got a lot of that in place.

What's the basis for half the house being hers? Is that in a contract for the mortgage or just your good will?

The wedding thing- well, there is a halfway house between a wedding costing £30K and a smaller celebration costing far less. It's not one extreme or the other. And you'd have probably covered the cost in savings on tax etc.

There is not much cost in tax savings due to wedding tbh, but we’ve not had a lot of savings most of the time and when we had some the other priorities took over like daughters uni cost at this moment. It’s just life happened.
She is on mortgage contract as an owner so half of her house is hers.