Am I being unreasonable about our household spending?

[CalmCanyon]

I’m interested in getting a reality check on our household spending because I’m struggling to work out whether I’m being unreasonable or whether our costs really are out of line.
We’re a family of four plus a dog in the South East of England. One of our daughters is at university and isn’t home most of the time, and her spending isn’t included here as she has her own finances.
Our monthly spending is roughly:

• Finances (mortgage, council tax, utilities, insurance, phones, broadband and other regular household bills): £1,833
• Groceries: £869
• Shopping (clothes, household items, Amazon, etc.): £583
• Transport: £253
• Eating out: £109
• Home & Family: £78
• General: £68
• Children: £32

Total: around £3,825 per month. The grocery and shopping figures are what concern me most. I don’t actually do most of the food shopping or day-to-day purchases—my partner does. As the sole earner, I see the overall numbers each month and I’m finding it increasingly difficult to make the budget work. I’ve tried to have calm conversations about our spending and whether we could cut back, but they usually end in disagreement. From my perspective it’s becoming a financial issue; from hers it doesn’t seem to be viewed in the same way. Unfortunately it’s started to affect our relationship, and at the moment it feels more like we’re housemates than a family working towards the same goals. I’m genuinely looking for outside perspectives.

And yet if a woman posted this thread about a male partner he’d be a lazy fucker, I’m sure.

The children are teen and university age. There is no need for a SAHP. The outgoings are more than the incomings and this woman won’t entertain a conversation about budgeting, about getting a job, or about counselling to help them communicate better. Does having been a SAHP absolve women of any responsibility in all other areas of the relationship once the children are older? Nobody would agree that a man earning all the money absolves him of doing any h chores or parenting, because that’s patently bollocks, so why is it OK the other way around?

It’s quite a harmful-to-women idea to perpetuate the status quo of women doing all the wifework at the expense of paid work, then finding themselves vulnerable in later life with no money of their own and no work experience.

Some women are their own worst enemy in this respect. Just because the research says something, doesn’t mean you unquestioningly live by it. Stop doing all the home stuff. Demand equality in ALL areas but this means equal financial contribution too, whether that’s both partners working part time or one full and one part time, or at least being engaged with household budgeting and supporting the sole earner by discussing finances and having a plan of what to do if financial difficulty arises, if you really must have a sole earner set-up (which I don’t think is good for anyone in this day and age). Why would men step up more more caring and housework (and they should) if they see women all around them continuing this sexist and damaging arrangement?

@DrBlackbird Two things- first, there is not the same amount of childcare needed for ONE teen at home (and the elder one at uni.)

We're not talking about a mum coping alone with two or three under-5s.

The other more important issue is that several weeks ago, the OP started a thread about his relationship.

In that thread his wife is quoted as saying she doesn't think she loves him, that if she had somewhere else to go, she would, and more negative and hurtful comments about him.

Meanwhile, he has indulged her freelance work (some form of crafts I think) and supported her financially for 20 years. She appears to have stopped working full time at 25 -ish and only contributed by doing some very part time work from home. She did not work for the first 12 years of the children's lives. She's barely worked at all.

And now, at 45 ish she is spending recklessly, refuses to get a job and it appears she is only with him as she can't afford to move out or support herself.

She also refuses to behave like an adult, taking no interest in saving, pensions, financial security. She prefers 'mindfulness' and living in the moment.
WTF?

All she does do is moan that 'the algorithms' aren't finding her customers for her work.

You get the pictire @DrBlackbird

I tend to be logical, future-focused, and concerned with planning ahead — things like finances, pensions, debt, and long-term stability.

My partner is much more present-focused. She values emotional wellbeing, peace of mind, and living day to day. She has consistently said she doesn’t like talking about money, budgets, or financial planning.

Over time, this difference has become a recurring source of conflict.

But if the OP really has been wanting to divorce her once the children got older then he needs to be honest about it.

They're not married. You're not even reading what's there and imagining a whole lot of other stuff on top. He seems overly supportive if anything, facilitating her doing nothing much to help pay the bills and backing down easily. We all have identity issues as our children grow up, but she's not been busy for a good while if one kid has left home and the other is a teen, and the issue is likely more not having something to fill that gap and anchor her identity, such as a paying job. But this divorce angle is imaginary and quite the reach.

@Monty36
At least read the posts by OP.

They are not married.

She is with him because she can't support herself.
She's not worked (other than dabbling in some freelance craft type stuff) for 20 years.

Her children are now at least 18 (at uni) and early teens.

She' s sponging off a man who doesn't want to accept his relationship is over but meanwhile she's happy to spend £1K a month of food and all sorts of other bits and pieces.

@CalmCanyon For your self worth (and finances) you need to get out of this.
It's going nowhere. You are indulging your partner in her laziness. I accept she may have lost confidence in her ability to work outside the home but she's 45-ish. She is young enough to retrain. She is young enough to get a job- any job- to help day to day expenses.

You need to start accepting this relationship is over, bar actually separating. if it helps, go and get some counselling on your own so you can hear yourself talking about this to a counsellor who is not invested in any way.

You're infantalising her. She is an adult, she has to take on board finances and longer term planning for the future - and if not with you, for herself.

All the time you go along with her attitude, she won't change.

It can be very hard to accept a relationship is over but from all you have said, yours is.

Your self esteem will be eroded even more if you stay with this woman. She doesn't care about you, she won't make any effort to change she's even gaslighting, by saying YOU can't change. The cheek of it!

Where is your self worth? You deserve far more than this.

I was a sahm for 10 years while the children were at primary school. Once that part was over they became independent. A few years ago I took on a part time job working from home. It’s helped me grow confidence and im contributing to my husband’s pot for the household. I’ve bought some lovely presents for my children and been on holidays with my new earnings! My husband seems relieved I’m bringing home extra money and feels more supported. Although he now has to contribute to towards house chores and cooking now!

And yet if a woman posted this thread about a male partner he’d be a lazy fucker, I’m sure.

I guess that depends on if the male partner was doing all the house/child care. FWIW, I know of several arrangements like this and it works out well for both partners. However, most men I know (yes, NAMALT) are far more preoccupied with money than the women I know. And I’ve known too many men over the years who are content to let women do the majority of the wife/mother and yet expecting them to also do paid work and annoyed if they don’t.

Someone upthread made the oh so helpful comment that we should fight for equality in the home. As if that’s not been the focus of many women’s efforts for decades yet not only is full equality not happening, the men’s rights movement is gaining ground a la the manosphere/ Tate brothers declaring that feminism has gone too far.

Yet so many women on this thread including you @ToohotToohotToohot are eagerly telling the op to leave his partner, so encouraging him to break up the home, damage their children’s lives and leave this poor women completely impoverished because you see her as ‘lazy’ …and to what, teach her a lesson? Because she’s been doing the unpaid work of a mother and homemaker. Accepting everything as truth based on his information… Fuck me. The sisterhood is well and truly dead.

Is she on or considering HRT? It can be a gamechanger where not only do you get your sense of self back again but it also prevents dementia, heart disease, osteoporosis, diabetes, cancers, autoimmune diseases etc.

It sounds like OP is very much trying to strive towards a team mentality with his wife but she isn't willing to do the same for him.

There's been periods of my marriage where my DH has come in with wildly different views to me on finances/jobs/where we want to live/when to have kids...but we've always been able to talk openly and honestly then formulate a path forward together where we both feel fairly done by.

The bottom line here (assuming OP has given an accurate account) is that the financial situation is not sustainable and wouldn't survive a stress test such as OP becoming seriously ill/longterm unemployed/major work is needed in the house/boiler goes etc. OP has voiced their anxiety to their wife, but the wife hasn't put forward any solutions to mitigate the issue and seems uninterested in working with OP on a positive path forward.

Let's be serious, if there are no disabilities in the family or special circumstances currently, there is no need for a full time SAHM to service a teenager. She can pick up a few hours of work per week quite easily and start from there - plenty of opportunity to work self employed as a cleaner/babysitter/tutor (dependent on her current skills and experience). If she struggles with confidence to do so then she should take up OP's offer of engaging in therapy but it's totally unfair to leave OP with the full brunt of ensuring the family's financial security in the knowledge that OP is struggling in that role.

Oi!

You need to read his other thread where his wife has said to him that she feels she doesn't love him.

Yet so many women on this thread including you are eagerly telling the op to leave his partner, so encouraging him to break up the home.

No.
His partner has already told him that SHE wants to leave but has no means to do it.

'Sisterhood' does not include supporting women per se.
You're making sweeping comments that are nothing to do with the actual reality of what's going on.

One child is an adult now at uni.
The other is a young teen.
You're talking as if she's a young mum at home with under 5s.
She's approaching 50!

She's not pulling her weight, she won't take any responsibility for their finances and she says if she could live elsewhere without him, she would.

As for teaching her a lesson- is that how you see it?
What is the lesson?

What their girls are witnessing are parents who don't get on and a woman who cannot support herself, or is even willing to try to earn something to help their finances.

Beg pardon. Leave her then .

The problem isn’t that she’s a SAHM though. The OP doesn’t sound like he was against that. It’s that she refuses to entertain any conversation about their financial difficulties and refuses to be an equal and supportive partner in any way. I’m not sure why you’re tying yourself in knots to excuse that tbh, that kind of “my way or the highway” attitude isn’t acceptable in any relationship. I’m taking what OP says at face value in the same way I do when women post about their male partners.

Edited to add that those men you talk about who expect their partners to work AND do all the house/child stuff are lazy entitled misogynists. But she’s behaving just as poorly by expecting OP not only to be the sole earner, but to refuse to support him by budgeting, expecting him to continue this relationship with her despite her apparently expressing that she’d leave if she had somewhere else to go, expecting him to do all the communication and emotional heavy lifting while she does none. Again, not sure why having been/being a SAHM makes any of that acceptable

She refuses to even consider work or discuss finances.

To make this an argument about sisterhood, misogyny and Tate-like behaviour is just ridiculous.

It suggests a complete lack of understanding.

@DrBlackbird leave this woman impoverished?
How about she becomes an adult and gets a job instead of fannying about pretending to have a business that’s had no income for 3 years. You would not be sympathetic to man being like this. Her kids are teens/young adults they don’t need a SAHM

it looks far to high , especially the shopping I spend roughly £300 a month that’s for 3 adults a child a cat and that includes cat food and cleaning/ laundry . Also the Amazon amount , what are you spending that amount on Amazon for?

@fedupandtired1 may I please ask what you eat during a week and whether that included toiletries and cleaning stuff?

Interested and I have three adults and a cat.

@theygrewupI shop only at Lidl . I meal plan for the week and try hard not to buy convenience foods as so expensive . I do a big batch cook on a Sunday including making 2 sort of cakes for the week to go on lunchboxes . I make 3 pack lunches a day my youngest gets free school meals but going into p6 after the summer so will be up to 4 packed lunches so budget may go up .i buy the £1.50 green fruit/ veg box from Lidl and use it just either to eat or make soups , crumbles or smoothies out it . I buy bleach , laundry liquid and dishwasher tablets . I make my own multi purpose spray out of vinegar and lemon juice . I buy the big bag of dry cat food it lasts around a month and I was buying the cat pouches , but food Amazon subscription to felix was only £9.96 for 40 pouches worked out cheaper

Oh and to add yes I buy toiletries at Lidl , bar soap , shampoo ( fake Aussie miracle ) deodorant fake tena , toilet paper . Last roughly 6 weeks

@fedupandtired1 but you haven't said what you eat as a family.

I have been to Lidl and whilst some things looked quite good: bread, yoghurt, I wasn't persuaded by the quality of the meat, and the loo roll I bought didn't seem like an economy because it was so rough.

No excuses at all.
There were changes within the business where she was working, which meant she could no longer continue there.
As I mentioned previously, she really came alive during those three years. She was happier, more engaged, and I'm convinced she would have continued working there if those circumstances hadn't changed.
One of the things she valued most was the flexibility. She was able to choose the hours that suited her, which gave her a sense of independence and control over her own time.
When we've discussed the possibility of her returning to work I think she worries that:
She would lose her independence and the ability to choose how she spends her time, which has become an important part of her identity.
The whole dynamic of our household and family life would change, and that uncertainty feels overwhelming.
She is a very feminine, creative, romantic person and something of a dreamer. Much of her identity has revolved around creating a home, making memories for our children, organising family life, and looking after those around her. I genuinely value all of those things.
What I struggle to understand is why, when I raise the need for more financial support or ask whether she might consider contributing in some way, she feels unvalued. Looking back, I think those conversations triggered deep insecurities for her, and from that point the whole dynamic between us began to change.
I understand why some people say, "Just leave." It's an easy conclusion to reach from the outside. But after so many years together, it's not a decision I can make lightly.
It would be a huge change for both of us, for our children, and for our wider family and friends. Before making a decision like that, I want to be as sure as I can that we've understood what happened to our relationship.

It sounds like she's unable to cope with change. The idea of being flexible with her work is ironic as she is being totally inflexible in the rest of her life, and that inflexibility is having a negative impact on your family and finances.
I don't have any answers for you. It's good you're asking questions here, and I wonder if getting professional help for yourself would also help the dynamic. Afterall, the only thing you can change is yourself, so maybe you can help her by changing how you react to her (very unreasonable) inflexible behaviour.

And along the way you might find the answer you are looking for a s to what comes next for your relationship.

Yes, Me, I am sahm. Husband not on that high of a wage. My advice for you? On pay day, move some money into a savings pot before she spends any of it. You work all month for that and have the right to do this, the amount is up to you. Also does she want to get married? set up a wedding fund as well, something to save for. Weddings can be done on a budget, ours was. It does not matter what anyone else says. Make it a family event just close family. I bet your girls would love it. Also there is more to life than money...your savings would help provide a family safety net. You sound like a good man.

When we've discussed the possibility of her returning to work I think she worries that:
She would lose her independence and the ability to choose how she spends her time, which has become an important part of her identity.
The whole dynamic of our household and family life would change, and that uncertainty feels overwhelming.
She is a very feminine, creative, romantic person and something of a dreamer. Much of her identity has revolved around creating a home, making memories for our children, organising family life, and looking after those around her. I genuinely value all of those things.

Surely she and you can appreciate that this is a lifestyle that MILLIONS of people would like?

Work when you feel like it, total flexibility, sit at home dreaming, wishing your freelance work with pick up if only those algorithms would get cracking on it etc.

But millions of people can't indulge that attitude (or dream) because it doesn't pay the bills.

What you are describing is a woman approaching 50 who wants to do just as she pleases, to the extent it impacts on you, creates stress around money, and is pushing you into debt.

You can describe it as 'being feminine (whatever that means!), creative and romantic'. But it's actually selfishness. And immaturity.
And when you call her out on it, she gaslights you - making out you're the baddie. Emotional blackmail. So you start to doubt yourself.

There are plenty of women who create a home, bring up the kids, organise the home AND WORK. Most don't have a choice of one or the other.

Spending a long time in a relationship is not a good enough reason to keep on spending time with that person if it's not working. (Read about the 'sunk cost fallacy' and cognitive distortion.)

What I struggle to understand is why, when I raise the need for more financial support or ask whether she might consider contributing in some way, she feels unvalued.

Stop trying to understand. There is no connection. Her way of trying to defend her behaviour is to try to make you feel guilty.

Maybe what you are facing is long term incompatibility which is now becoming more clear once you have reached a financial crunch point. She won't accept responsibility, she won't change, she won't meet you half way, she won't rein in the spending.

She has already told you she thinks she may not love you, would walk away if she could, so what else do you need to hear?

It's time to start accepting the reality of your relationship- not what you thought it was, not what you hoped it would be, not how she might change, but how it really is.

The alternative is to waste the rest of your life with a woman who doesn't care about you.