Covid vaccine, to ask if this makes you worried?

[lingo1234]

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-19/largest-covid-vaccine-study-yet-finds-links-to-health-conditions?leadSource=uverify%20wall

I'm double vaccinated, had 2 Pfizer but reading articles such as the above and seeing people in the news dying of sudden heart attacks and blood clots makes me really worried.

If I could go back in time, I'm not sure I would get vaxed without waiting for further research.

Anybody else?

Google Richard Beckinsale. He was 32, in 1979. But it 'never used to happen'.

Scare stories about vaccines have caused the recurrence of Measles in this country, which had almost been eradicated. Millions of women won't take HRT, which could improve their lives immeasurably, because of media scare stories. This stuff has consequences.

But that could also just be media/algorithm bias. People are interested in these types of stories now, so you click on them, editors then choose to run more of them or the social algorithm provides you with more content.

You have to look at statistics to see if cases of sudden heart attacks and clots have significantly increased with statistical significance. I don't believe they have but happy to be corrected.

It's like with dog attacks. The news ran more stories because we all clicked on them as interest gathered. The government had to look at the statistics to see if there was actually an increase in cases or just increased media interest. In that case, there was statistical evidence of an actual increase.

You can't trust what you are hearing to be proportionate because of the feedback loop.

People in general don't understand risk, percentages or statistics. That's an issue societally at large.

People also don't understand that even those two paracetamol you've popped for that headache have side effects and that while by and large the vast majority of people will have no issues at all; someone, somewhere is going to get hit with the bad luck stick and have a problem.

I say this as someone who is still experiencing difficulties that started after the second A-Z jab. I have skin problems - blisters that flare up on my palms and soles of my feet (which is a fucker of a place to have skin peeling off if you want to actually walk anywhere), increased skin reactions to things that previously caused me no problems at all (I've had to stop bleaching my hair for example), I get periodic periods where I have weakness and difficulty in my legs moving how they should do, and the most horrible deep joint pain all the way down my limbs. I'm fairly resigned now that these are in for the duration - but the GP's started trying to get to the bottom of what they can. Reported on the yellow card scheme but this was back in the period where you couldn't question the vaccines without being abused and insulted and I didn't get much of a response at all, other than a "the vaccines are safe" reply.

I got the unlucky element of the statistics on this one - unfortunately it happened that the medication I reacted badly to was a highly politicised vaccine in the middle of a pandemic, rather than having a bad time with a couple of paracetamol and so I've had a pretty crap few years keeping my head down, hoping they wouldn't push through mandatory boosters for NHS staff so my career didn't go down the toilet and just getting on with things.

I will always be incredibly opposed to mandatory vaccines anyway, I believe people should always have the right to informed consent, and it's not consent if it's something you "have" to do in order to keep your job; but I don't think there was some grand conspiracy or that vaccination in any way is "bad" - just that people need to be given as much information as possible, in a balanced non-coercive way, in order to make the risk/benefit decision for themselves... and that I don't want to make my issues any worse by having more of them!

And that is the other reason why we need to remove the toxicity and have a fully open and honest dialogue about it - because otherwise you end up with people in situations like I was having to try to Google solutions and that's a very very easy way to find yourself in a tin-foil coated niche corner of the internet... and by now we all know how algorithms create a self-perpetuating echo chamber.

For someone who's had issues with the Covid jab (A-Z one, not the current ones for clarity) - I'm actually pretty sensible and measured about it, and I make a point of speaking out in an attempt to try to balance the conversation out somewhat.

You can react to anything - friend developed chronic fatigue from the HPV jab; DD2 had issues with developing measles-lite after the MMR... that's what the huge long information leaflet inside the medicines packet is there for.

I believe the vaccine is responsible for my cancer diagnosis.

Whoah really?!

Ive had a bad ‘reaction’ to the vaccine and developed POTS (effect is similar to severe heart issues, even though there is no issue with my heart).

I know a few people who have had similar issues.

In your case, I wouldn’t be worried as I suspect you’d know of said vaccine had an impact on you.

Before 2020, I don't recall hearing about any people dropping dead for no reason, yet now it's often in the news and you can't help but wonder. What I'm saying is I know these events always happened, but there's no denying you hear about it more now.

But this is what I'm saying is a narrative that is being pushed by antivaxxer groups, and then there's a feedback loop where news outlets want as many views as possible, they know sudden death related articles get views so they publish more of them, the antivaxxers then go - seeeeeeeee!!!!

I've seen all those memes where they go "Hmmm I don't remember anyone dropping dead when I was at school??" It pushes this idea that it "never happened" before but it's still now not so common that it's happening weekly in every school, so it would make sense that the majority of people don't have any personal experience of this YET it has always happened and over a nationwide or worldwide scale, that is a lot of people. It's manipulation of the facts to suit a narrative.

OK I can see heart related deaths have increased, I didn't say they hadn't increased. I don't know what the reason for the increase is, sounds like the BHF is looking into this. I said they have always been one of the top causes of death, in general. I don't think they have increased anywhere near at the rate this narrative, pushed by antivaxxers, make out. It is pure scaremongering.

There is a difference between the anyivaxxer discourse - everything is due to the vax- and the fact that yes we do hear from ‘celebrities’ that have dropped dead much more often.

And fwiw if you go down a different part of the Internet, people will tell you it’s all because if Covid and they wouldn’t be dead if they had been wearing a mask/clean the air etc….

So it really depends who you are listening to!

What I think is a much bigger concern is the fact we still have a high excess death vs 2019. That you can find it everywhere in the world, incl in countries where they still have a decent healthcare system.
Seeing the main event in those last 4 years is Covid (illness plus vax), I think there is a lot we should be concentrating on just now. And I don’t mean masks. I mean clean air like they’ve done in the House of Parliament, the Covid enquiry or at the Ministry of Defense.
If toise people need protection with clean air, so do we!

I don't doubt that Covid vaccines can have significant side effects, same as any other medical intervention. People who have had a bad reaction immediately after the vaccine shouldn't be shamed as antivaxxers. However, we now have many scientific studies showing the Covid vaccine is overall beneficial, reducing illness severity and mortality. This is fact, it's not a matter of opinion. To the OP: vaccines don't cause side effects years later. If nothing bad happened to you soon after vaccination, you'll be fine!

We also have many studies showing Covid itself has lingering term effects on health in a significant proportion of people, this was noticed from before the vaccines even existed. Most people have now been infected several times. It's just common sense that a new disease introduced to society is the cause of increased ill health, increased excess deaths, economic downturn due to sickness absence, increased school absences etc., all of which started pretty much the same time as the disease began to run rampant. Otherwise it would be a pretty spectacular coincidence, no?

I don't understand why people are so eager to blame literally anything else: vaccines, being locked down for a few months several years ago, chemtrails in the sky, not doing enough yoga, whatever? Is this a trauma/dissociation response, to deny logical reality? If we're not happy with overall health in society deteriorating, what we need is mitigation against Covid: air filtration/ventilation, paid sick leave, masks where appropriate.

My DD has never been vaccinated but she developed similar problems to yours after getting Covid. She was hospitalised with heart inflammation and has since been diagnosed with Long Covid and POTS.

I've had covid four times. First time December 2019. Built-up natural immunity. Embalmers are finding some particularly unusual clots across the globe. People in their 20s + are dying of unexpected events. Do your own research. I expect the 77th to remove this post.

😴

Embalmers are finding some particularly unusual clots across the globe

It's not just the embalmers seeing the clots.

Yep.
It seems that the vax and Covid can have basically similar negative effects on the body.
Some people think it’s linked to the spike protein present in both.

I am really sorry your dd is struggling with LC and POTS. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain who is is seeing these clots? Do you have a link?
There's a lot of pictures of these "clots" on Twitter. Pathologists have confirmed they are normal phenomena seen in the deceased. They have been seeing them for decades but anti-vaxers are now using the pictures for scaremongering.

I don't doubt that Covid vaccines can have significant side effects, same as any other medical intervention. People who have had a bad reaction immediately after the vaccine shouldn't be shamed as antivaxxers. However, we now have many scientific studies showing the Covid vaccine is overall beneficial, reducing illness severity and mortality.

@CatsWillRuleTheWorld my issue is that all the studies I have seen re the vax is about deaths, anaphylactic shock etc… usually also quite immediate issues.
But if let’s say the vax does make you more likely to have a heart attack, how will you make the link? How will it be counted? (Knowing medics have a string biais FOR vaccination so usually possible Ep negative effects are dismissed unless they can’t ignore it)

Things like POTS usually take years to be diagnosed because it’s so poorly recognised and often patients are told they are just anxious..
How are counting them and are we even attempting to do so?

Basically, actually knowing the safe effects and the LT effect of a vax is very hard.

And if course, the vax did save lives. I’m not disputing that and as you say there are many studies showing that.

What I don’t see is infirmation on how disabling the vax or Covid is.
In a world where the increase in disabled people is affecting economies (see Germany going into recession, which is, according to its PM, due to the increase number of chronically ill people after Covid….), this is crucial information. And this is never taken into account when evaluating if the vax is beneficial or not. Only deaths are.
I don’t think it should be ignored as ‘not serious enough because it isn’t death’ as it is atm. Both because of the impact on the people affected. And because of the impact on the society as a whole.

I've had COVID three times now, and it's been progressively nastier and with longer-lasting symptoms each time. Neurological, respiratory and digestive symptoms, nerve pain, exhaustion. I'm MUCH more worried about the long-term effects of this horrible virus than I am about some vanishingly unlikely consequence of the vaccine. I have nothing but contempt for the thick idiots who insist it's "just a cold" and have built some sort of identity out of refusing to vaccinate themselves.

Sorry, that was sarcasm about clots as in people who make remarks about posts being removed by some sinister dark forces.

there will be so many more people who have heart attacks because of their weight, poor diet and lack of exercise. You’re being very irrational

What caused them to be higher in 2011?

I don't know anyone who has. Glad I did.
I'm a teacher. I know loads of people of all ages.
I do know someone disabled by Long Covid.

Nice to see you denying that side effects exist. Even the Govt accepts that there are people who have side effects which is why schemes like the vaccine damage one exist and have done for many years.

It's comments like that as chipper throw away asides that make the discussion so bloody toxic and mean that people get driven to the lunatic fringes of the internet trying to find answers to what they're experiencing. It made my life bloody awful with what was triggered by it in me when people would say insensitive stuff like that.

I had 4 and developed a ton of nasty neuro issues after the 4th- some of it has improved a lot but 16 months later some persists and at times is quite debilitating- came on 3 days after the vaccine. . I'm not sure now we know what we know that it doesn't actually stop you getting it and that people have still died who were vaccinated, I'm not sure I would have had more than the first two. I'm not remotely anti vax, just anti vax for me