Excess Deaths

[Alexhorner]

Anyone seen this? Ongoing excess deaths remain stubbornly high in the UK. Just read the comments!

But why no mention on the BBC news? No investigation?

I wonder what part Covid has to play in this? If it's not Covid, then what else could it be?

Oh I don't know. Who would you rather get your health advise from, someone who walks the walk or someone who cant even talk the talk:

https://twitter.com/PierreKory/status/1607144563558187009?s=20

@Alexhorner

Around 90% of the Australian population is vaccinated. If you look at the data, what percentage of those in hospital with serious illness or death are vaccinated

You're almost there! Another step would be to consider what vaccines actually do, as I'm not sure you understand this. Not all vaccines halt transmission entirely. Some, like the Covid vaccine, aim to slow transmission plus dampen disease severity. It has achieved both those things.

It did neither of those two things. Official UKHSA surveillance data from the UK Government showed that the vaccinated (per 100,000 in each age group) had more infections than the unvaccinated. The Australian data (and other countries such as Israel) showed that the vaccinated fared worse with Covid than the unvaccinated in most cases.

It was not a significant factor in slowing transmission, and was never tested or designed to do this (Pfizer's own disclosure). Any slowing of transmission correlates with degrees of seasonality (since the impacts of respiratory viruses are seasonal to a degree), the natural cycles of infection/reinfection of a virus, plus, most importantly, the increasingly acquired natural levels of immunity in the population, since, by early/mid 2021 almost everyone had been exposed to Covid by some degree. That said, Covid will be with us for a long time so those still proposing masks, zero Covid and other ineffective control measures are, how shall I be polite about this, totally barking mad!

Strange that our news told us the opposite isn't it? But look up the stuff above and you might learn some fairly basic 101 level science. Science that was thrown out of the window in 2020 when weak politicians meet head on with corporate greed and corrupt scientists.

Apart from the fact that covid isn’t seasonal, natural immunity to coronaviruses -including SARS-COV-2 - is extremely short lived, you don’t appear to have taken account of base rate fallacy or defined ‘vaccinated’ in any meaningful way I’m sure your above post is entirely scientifically accurate.

No, a degree of natural immunity remains for life after exposure as can be seen by people who still display some degree of immunity to the original SARS virus nearly 20 years later. Natural immunity confers a degree of mucosal immunity which vaccine acquired immunity does not since vaccine immunity is only associated with the spike protein only, not the many other parts of the virus.

Immunity does not necessarily mean that you will never catch something again, just that your body knows how to effectively fight and protect against the worst effects.

Vaccine immunity wanes very quickly and is vastly inferior. If natural immunity wasn't a thing our species would never have survived this long. Seriously, this is basic science so please stop making yourself look stupid!

@Alexhorner

It did neither of those two things. Official UKHSA surveillance data from the UK Government showed that the vaccinated (per 100,000 in each age group) had more infections than the unvaccinated. The Australian data (and other countries such as Israel) showed that the vaccinated fared worse with Covid than the unvaccinated in most cases.

Okay, I've posted that image again. Look carefully at the 'Hospitalised with Covid' circle with intersecting 'Vaccinated' and 'Unvaccinated'. This accounts for people with more severe illness. You'll note that that rest of 'Vaccinated' bubble is significantly larger than the 'Unvaccinated', as most of the population has been vaccinated and do not require hospitalisation. This is due to the success of the vaccination program.

It was not a significant factor in slowing transmission, and was never tested or designed to do this (Pfizer's own disclosure). Any slowing of transmission correlates with degrees of seasonality (since the impacts of respiratory viruses are seasonal to a degree), the natural cycles of infection/reinfection of a virus, plus, most importantly, the increasingly acquired natural levels of immunity in the population, since, by early/mid 2021 almost everyone had been exposed to Covid by some degree. That said, Covid will be with us for a long time so those still proposing masks, zero Covid and other ineffective control measures are, how shall I be polite about this, totally barking mad!

Covid is not seasonal. I live in the southern hemisphere and had my first (and so far only) infection over Christmas 2022, in extreme heat. The lack of Pfizer testing for transmission doesn't make sense, anyway. Who would be the test subjects? And remember, this vaccine was meant to slow transmission rates and prevent severe disease - not stop transmission.

Strange that our news told us the opposite isn't it? But look up the stuff above and you might learn some fairly basic 101 level science. Science that was thrown out of the window in 2020 when weak politicians meet head on with corporate greed and corrupt scientists.

I'll throw that back to you. I don't think you're really here to learn anything, anyway.

@Alexhorner

No, a degree of natural immunity remains for life after exposure as can be seen by people who still display some degree of immunity to the original SARS virus nearly 20 years later. Natural immunity confers a degree of mucosal immunity which vaccine acquired immunity does not since vaccine immunity is only associated with the spike protein only, not the many other parts of the virus.

This virus is rather different. It mutates quickly.

Natural immunity means you must have the virus first. Sometimes it's okay, sometimes you die or suffer life-long side-effects. Vaccines exist so we don't need to subject ourselves to that sort of lottery.

I cant be bothered debating your rubbish I'm afraid. Please go and learn some basic, long established immunological and virological principles, then look at the actual data regarding Covid mortality and vaccine effectiveness (the actual data - not someones biased opinion on the data) and then come back and debate when you have done so.

Anyone still claiming that this came from bats by the way rather than a lab leak? Hahaha!

@Alexhorner

I cant be bothered debating your rubbish I'm afraid. Please go and learn some basic, long established immunological and virological principles, then look at the actual data regarding Covid mortality and vaccine effectiveness (the actual data - not someones biased opinion on the data) and then come back and debate when you have done so.

I tried, I guess. And when have I given someone's biased opinion, other than my own thoughts? You're more guilty of the above than me. However, I'm not going to debate you any further as I don't believe you're interested in that anyway.

I don't know where it came from. One thing that always struck me though was if it did come from the lab and the world saw China's response to that intel, why didn't we emulate their response a bit further? I'm not suggesting we do btw.

I also don't think you're here to take any actual information on board. You started with a disingenuous post designed to get yourself around to promoting full on disinformation, so you've managed to get yourself exactly where you were hoping.

But I will say a few things about the RFK jr interview.

Kennedy spent a lot of time presenting as fact things from his own article. One that he wrote in 2005 linking childhood vaccines to autism. The article was so flawed, Salon retracted it. In it, Kennedy relied extensively on the work of a doctor whose medical license was revoked. This doctor had developed a protocol for 'treating autism' that involved injecting children with high doses of Lupron (a hormone altering drug sometimes used to castrate sex offenders).

Kennedy went on about Thimerosal, alleging a huge cover-up. His 'proof' of this was using manipulated quotes (you can look up The Simpsonwood Conference and Dr Robert Brent if you're interested). For what it's worth, Thimerosal is no longer used in vaccines. When this was pointed out, Kennedy ignored it and moved onto aluminium as the possible danger.

Kennedy claimed, without evidence, that the vaccines are dangerous and significantly raise mortality. He claimed that ivermectin is an effective treatment (no study has borne this out). He accused Bill Gates of obscuring the effectiveness by giving people lethal doses of ivermectin.

Rogan said he took Ivermectin. The truth is that he also received monoclonal antibodies.

I note that the much publicised Covid vaccine enthusiast Peter Hotez has refused to debate with vaccine skeptic and American Presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Now why would you refuse a debate for charity, unless of course you were fearful that your lies were going to be exposed?

Because, as your threads prove, you can shout fake claims much faster than you can disprove them @Alexhorner

If RFK Jr submitted his claims in writing (no childhood vaccines should be given, vaccines cause autism, HIV does not exist etc), any scientist could easily disprove them with a written rebuttal. RFK Jr would then be free to submit his rebuttal, and so on. This is how actual scienctific debate occurs, because it allows for proper fact checking.

But this wouldn't generate any money or excitement for the anti-vaccine crowd or their viewership would it?

Why on earth should a scientist go on a hostile podcast, do all the prep work etc, for free, just because Elon Musk and Joe Rogan are ordering him to? The "£10,000 donation to any charity" will be vastly surpassed by the amount of damage the resulting podcast would actually do (while making Rogan even richer).

And why on earth would they put themselves at risk, given any scientist in the public eye who speaks factually about vaccines is subject to death threats against them and their family?

Already a video is up of someone going to Hotez' house in Texas and harasssing him. The threat to life is real, and all you're doing is adding fuel to the fire. Why MNHQ are happy to promote this shite I don't know.

You have been completely taken in by those that are making money from this. You are literally providing free grunt work and advertising for individuals who are making millions from causing harm @Alexhorner

As has been said over and over, skepticism shouldn't go only one way.

If you are skeptical of "big pharma" due to their COIs, you should also be skeptical of the people making money from health disinformation (speaking circuits, monetised youtube channels, supplements, consults, marked up medications etc) Going against evidence based medicine (e.g., "the mainstream") earns you a far better salary than working as a regular doctor or scientist.

People link you to primary evidence, all you do is ignore and blindly repeat other people's opinions as your own.

So many posters have explained why your interpretation of the sources you are linking are incorrect (which if you read the full document you'd realise anyway). Why not do some training in epidemiology and statistics? Then you could read these things for yourself and make up your own mind?

who made you the person of divine knowledge? A few biased studies funded by Pfizer? The same Pfizer who have "zero" conflict of interest to ensure peer reviewed studies are published that support their very lucrative products?

More bonker-ness.

I've repeatedly described the many issues with pharmecuetical companies including Pfizer. I've also pointed out this is irrelevant as we are not dependent on Pfizer trial data to evaluate vaccine safety or effectiveness.

You don't seem to get it @statementstate or indeed want to

Billions of doses have been given - hundreds of studies (independent of Pfizer who you are so foccused on) have been conducted. You are suggesting that regulatory bodies of all countries, all these independent research groups, tens of thouands of research scientists who have collectively been involved in independent research are somehow colluding to make a company rich?

You keep trying to insult anyone with scientific experience who joins the thread, but seem unable to appreciate that it is odd you can see something that hundreds of thousands of experts cannot.

There is plenty of evidence against your stance, which is also just your opinion at this point. Just because you or whoever links your "evidence" it doesn't mean there isn't opposing scientific evidence.

But there isn't? As has been requested of you so many times, link a single paper that demonstates vaccinating the general population was a mistake.

^^ There is a reason you never bothered replying to this PP @statementstate

Actually think about what people are saying to you

Meanwhile, you on the other hand are desperate to believe what you have been told and you can find all the evidence to underpin your beliefs because you and all your family have taken the jabs, so you are driven by fear.

Nope. As I've said to you before, the government & media regularly report science incorrectly. Indeed, they have reported my own research incorrectly.

My opinions of the SARS-COV-2 vaccines are informed by actual evidence, that I'm lucky enough to be able to access and read.

If I now thought the risks outweighed the benefits of a booster, I would just say no to the next one when offered. I'd advise my pregnant sister, grandparents etc, who are offered boosters to turn it down. But given the current evidence, I agree with UK recommendations.

You want people to be fearful and anxious, and terrified of a vaccine they had two years ago (for whatever reason), which is why I point out your posts have no substance @statementstate

It's a FUCKING LIE !!!

My extremely healthy dad with 'mild kidney issues' ( no pills no dialysis just controlled by diet) went into Pembury hospital in Kent with a chest infection in Feb.... no Covid restrictions as 'Covid is over isn't it' ...

He died 5 weeks later after everyone was in and out of his room without any Covid protocol...

Death due to ' kidney failure' ... despite the fact that without Covid it wouldn't of happened. Not counted on the stats..

Mum died 8 days later from Broken heart.. and septicaemia due to there being only 4 nurses looking after 60 patients... I'm not complaining about her care she just needed more of it...

NO @bronzepig it is you that doesn't get it with your bonkers approach of thinking everything you say holds weight.

I don't reply to every post because I am reiterating the same thing over and over and it is no fun, as I am sure you'd agree. I also have a life and I am not getting paid to say more than I have the energy for.

Leafy thinks they know it all because they are a scientist and they list can 1 or 2 prevalent names of "Covid vaccine skeptics" and they think I should be triggered to respond? The fact that those same names are brought up each time is boring and amplifies the fear a lot of you chronically suffer from.

"Oh they're being paid millions to speak at events spreading misinformation about the wonderful vaccines that saved millions of lives, and you're taking the bait"
So effing what they're getting paid? Are they supposed to do all this for free? Altruism doesn't exist for Pharmaceutical companies who could keep people alive and healthy for next to nothing rather than line their fat pockets as they keep the masses in perpetual ill health dependant on drugs, but you expect experts who speak out about the ride we're all on to sleep in tents, claim social security and preach from street corners for FREE? Should they demonetise their socials? What would that prove? Why does their work need to come for free?

There are thousands of medical professionals and scientists worldwide who oppose everything you say. There are 100s of thousands of dead and injured (including long Covid rebranded as I mentioned before) people from the C19 vaccines across the globe. Far from what you claim them to be, these jabs.

Go red in the face, bang your head against a brick wall, I do not care. There is nothing you have said that I haven't already looked into, and my position has not changed. What actually is bonkers id that I did have a different opinion at the start of this, and I was never one to even give a moment of time to 'conspiracy theories', however, these past 3 years have changed that.

Coming back to the thread to see you have still not been able to provide any evidence that suggests vaccination of the general population was a mistake @statementstate

And your (now deleted) post claimed the COVID pandemic was planned. What's the point if this is the kind of rabbit hole you're down?

Leafy thinks they know it all because they are a scientist and they list can 1 or 2 prevalent names of "Covid vaccine skeptics"

It's disengenous to put things in quotes a person has never said - along with insulting posters it just demonstrates you do not have anything of weight behind the wild claims you are making

There are thousands of medical professionals and scientists worldwide who oppose everything you say.

As I have said to you so many times - THEN PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE BEHIND THEIR CLAIMS. If it exists, it's not difficult. Show us evidence, that isn't just them talking, that backs up what they are saying. Otherwise you are just blindly repeating other people's opinions.

I am entirely happy to change my opinion on any vaccine or medication. I don't want to have any intervention where the risks outweigh the benefits, and I certainly don't want my family to either.

But there is literally nothing to suggest that a) we should be worried about a vaccine offered 2 years ago or b) the groups currently offered a booster should turn it down.

Oh they're being paid millions to speak at events spreading misinformation about the wonderful vaccines that saved millions of lives, and you're taking the bait"
So effing what they're getting paid? Are they supposed to do all this for free?

Blissful (deliberate?) ignorance?

It's labouring the point now but you don't seem to get it. It is highly lucrative to stop working as a clinicia or scientist, and instead become a full time disinformation graft.

@leafyygreens what was deleted? For what reason? This is why people go down rabbit holes, when they are told what they can and can't say.

Saying the Pandemic was a sham is harmful? Look at the video we've just seen from your mainstream media at Downing Street. Does that look like a scene taken from the middle of a pandemic? Does the mockery they made reflect actions of individuals that should have been setting examples for the public?

I already told you that there are way over 3000 peer reviewed studies that show the vaccines to be harmful. I won't list a single one, you can do it yourself and bring them back to show your supporters on here. It is scary that you think these studies don't exist. At this point I should drop one or ten , but you're more likely to read them if you go looking yourself.

As a scientist you should be curious enough and you should be doing this already.

As far as risks outweighing the benefits, I know a few people for which the risks have now left them permanently debilitated. I work very closely with someone who will receive government compensation for the heart issues she developed after her second jab. She had an operation 2 months ago.
She even refused to resign herself to the fact that she was injured until her consultant proved to her she was and linked her to support groups for other young people in her situation. They have a forum and they all talk about how no one would take them seriously and how much they played down their illnesses just not to have to face there was anything wrong. I wonder how much of this is going on that we don't know about.

Blissful (deliberate?) ignorance?

It's labouring the point now but you don't seem to get it. It is highly lucrative to stop working as a clinicia or scientist, and instead become a full time disinformation graft.

NO, again, it is you that doesn't seem to get it. Most of these guys weren't ever short a bob or two to start with so they aren't making huge financial come ups that only "disinformation" spreading brings. You cannot use this money making excuse, when that is what the pandemic was built on from the other side of the coin.
There is no "got ya" moment from anyone making money from anything. Why don't you get that? It is beyond exhausting that you keep thinking you have made some huge point. You haven't.

If MN would pay me, I would be linking all the studies you keep crying for without encouragement.

Had my 6th vaccine in May. I've had both traditional and mRNA. No side effects bar sore arm and tiredness the first time. Had covid shortly after my second vaccine in Aug 21. Nasty and strange but got over it.

My brother got Covid in March 2020. Awful dose. Dreadful fever , headaches, pains in eyes and upper arms. 5 weeks of it. No vaccine then of course. He is gradually improving but still has palpitations if he overdoes things.

We can all do anecdotal stuff. As for Campbell , he won't reply to Dr Susan Oliver who spotted his mistake on Ivermectin. Going by his videos there should be 4.8 million ppl in Britain with myocarditis. If this is true I suppose you are right- there ought to be media coverage. The health service will shortly collapse surely? We must all know several people with pretty serious heart problems.

But I only know 1. And he was born with it . It's all a mystery.....