Excess Deaths

[Alexhorner]

Anyone seen this? Ongoing excess deaths remain stubbornly high in the UK. Just read the comments!

But why no mention on the BBC news? No investigation?

I wonder what part Covid has to play in this? If it's not Covid, then what else could it be?

According to the ONS, covid was the 6th highest cause of death in 2022, having been the leading cause of death in 2021. The leading causes of death in 2022 were dementia and heart disease.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathregistrationsummarystatisticsenglandandwales/2022

There appears to be a greater risk of dementia following covid https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/increased-dementia-risk-post-covid-19-infection-study-suggests/

Likewise heart disease https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00403-0

What else could it be?
Sadly, lots of people are presenting very late with symptoms of cancer and other conditions, and so are diagnosed when already at a very late stage.
People often can’t easily get a GP appt only a phone one and therefore put it off for weeks/until very severe issues. Often people don’t want to go into as much detail or open up as much over the phone, so this ‘phone appt first to see if you need to come in’ doesn’t work effectively for them

People I know are dying - and it seems to be later middle age - with sudden heart attacks.

i do wonder if covid causes longer term vascular issues

Ah John Campbell again - the retired nurse with a phd in education - absolutely no background in statistics, epidemiology or research

The issues regarding his videos (i.e., that he spouts nonsense for monetary gain) has been widely discussed on MN

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/coronavirus/4371621-Dr-John-Campbell-YouTube-videos-what-happened?page=1

Excess death figures need careful evaluation by people compentent to do so, not by someone who is trying to pin it on a vaccine the majority of people had ~2 years ago.

Info in the public domain demonstrates he makes upwards of £10,000 a month from his monetised youtube channel. More controversial = more clicks.

I do not think MN should be adding to his revenue by advertising him.

I presume it is a mix of factors - covid itself increases risk of a whole host of health issues - increases risk of death and increases pressure on services, NHS waiting lists were already long and are now longer post lockdown, access to healthcare takes longer/some put off due to high level of covid in healthcare settings/overstretched due to less staff (Brexit, burnout, poor working conditions), long ambulance wait times, poverty (cost of living, long covid, pandemic measures).

The thing is, my husband knows four other guys roughly his age (46) who have had heart issues with symptoms appearing not after Covid, but shortly after vaccination. Almost everyone you speak to knows someone who has had some bad side effects (not talking about just a sore arm here) after one of their vaccinations. Sure this is anecdotal, but this is not normal. Never ever known of anything similar before to such a degree. So what is going on an why does no one seem bothered about it?

The excess deaths are there are they not? The equivalent of an extra 2-3 Jumbo Jets full of people each and every week are dying. So why is no-one seemingly wanting to investigate this. Why no debate in parliament? Why nothing on the BBC news?

Surely you can see that transparency breeds fertile ground for conspiracy theories?

Who knows, but surely it should be investigated as a matter of urgency.

Maybe your friends are just unlucky, AlexHorner? I don't know anyone who has had a serious reaction or illness within a couple of weeks of any of the vaccinations, and almost everyone I know is vaccinated. I do know a few people with varieties of long Covid and a few people who were very ill with Covid before vaccination. Certainly almost everyone I speak to knows someone who was badly affected by Covid.

Ah the original wide eyed "I wonder what part Covid has to play in this? If it's not Covid, then what else could it be?" didn't get the replies you wanted? @Alexhorner

Why do you think a vaccine that the vast majority of the population had over 2 years ago is causing deaths now? Could you explain the biological mechanism?

Epidemiologists and clinicians are concerned about excess mortality, they're just not attempting to blame it on something that is clearly not causal.

Consider why you are doing free advertising for John Campbell (and presumably getting nothing) when he makes tens of thousands monthly by pushing conspiracy theories. The anti-vaccine circuit is a lucrative career move indeed.

Anecdotally, I don't know anyone who has had an adverse reaction to the covid vaccines - covering aged 9-80+ years old. Sore arm, bit of a headache sometimes. All short lasting, and was worse with first but then improved.

I do however know of several people who have ongoing issues following covid infections, of varying ages but mainly around the 30-50y age group.

The equivalent of an extra 2-3 Jumbo Jets full of people each and every week are dying

Gosh, the jumbo jet analogy. That takes me back, and not in a good way.

@Toohotrightnow posted very plausible reasons for excess deaths up thread. The NHS is still dealing with the effects of being effectively closed to anything but covid in 2020.

Interesting, for me it is the opposite. I, and my close circle of friends and family know no one who has had a particularly hard time with Covid, yet there are several who have had a very bad effect from their vaccination. I wonder how we could be so different?

Does the same apply to the many other countries who don't have our NHS but who still have exceedingly high ongoing excess death rates?

If, as you say, the anti-vaccine circuit is lucrative, I wonder how much more lucrative the vaccines were for the manufacturers, and for those pushing them so hard?

@Alexhorner

Does the same apply to the many other countries who don't have our NHS but who still have exceedingly high ongoing excess death rates?

Why wouldn't it? Covid is nasty and very similar worldwide.

@Alexhorner

If, as you say, the anti-vaccine circuit is lucrative, I wonder how much more lucrative the vaccines were for the manufacturers, and for those pushing them so hard?

Wait ... you don't know that the ant-vaccine circuit is lucrative?

Well, we'll never know will we?

Because there's certainly no appetite for analysing the reasons as far as I can see looking at general media. Between covid, lockdown, lack of health screening, poverty, and of course the magical vaccination that prevented absolutely nothing, how would we ever know?

There are a lot of excess deaths though. Should be a press conference about it really.

Wait. You don't know that pharmaceutical companies are profitable 🤣

I don't know anyone who was ever harmed by covid nor who had truly bad vaccine responses. I heard that a chap I met once got long covid (he got better since). I don't know of any unusual deaths at all in last 24m, although I know 3 people who died in that period, 2 under age 55. Their causes of death were RTA, genetic cancer, old-age cancer. Heart attacks and strokes? Even though I have dozens of relatives age 50+, they are all free from those problems in last 5 years. We all live in our own bubbles.

Seemingly excess deaths has been covered extensively in press and will be studied & discussed constantly for years to come as part of normal surveillance.

@Casilero

Wait. You don't know that pharmaceutical companies are profitable 🤣

Did I imply that? Unlike the OP, who did imply that the anti-vax circuit may not be a money-making operation. Perhaps they're all driven by altruism? 😂

Other European countries mostly don't still have excess deaths, not after adjustment for population ageing since 2019.

The US does, but it's largely caused by a continuing wave of fentanyl deaths.

Best guess is it's the NHS, and in particular ambulance delays.