Is it ok to ask about the ramping up of vaccine side effects stories?

[SparklingJam]

I’m generally pro vaccines, but I’m starting to question the effects of the covid jab, and wonder if it’s possible to have a discussion about it. Apologies if this has been done to death, or isn’t an accepted topic.

I’ve been seeing more information about deaths of young men, how the vaccine isn’t very effective against covid, and hearing all about dreadful side effects, to the point where some people won’t have the jab because they “know” they’ll die.

I can fully accept that there are side effects, but the talk of increased deaths (apparently 1300 excess deaths per week, coupled with videos of supposed undertakers saying they are 50-100% busier now) is making me question things and worry.

Having said that, in my extended circle of friends, family and colleagues, I know many people who are mostly vaccinated, and apart from a day or 5 of feeling fluey they all have no side effects and haven’t died.
At the same time through the same extended group, I know a couple who have died of covid and several who still have long covid which has disabled them to varying degrees.

It would be logical to think that the excess deaths are a catch up to lock down and lack of hospital treatment, plus the current issues many have with seeing a gp or calling an ambulance, but I am assured by certain people that the excess deaths are solely due to the vaccine.

I think it will be interesting to see what the uptake will be for the winter booster, I currently have covid for the 2nd time ( fully vaccinated) and am having 2nd thoughts about the next booster but not because of side effects stories

I very much doubt these people in the group have any clear scientific evidence that they are “vaccine injured”

You have no idea how happy you made me knowing I'm not the only one with these strange body things going on as a reaction! Because of how polarised the discussion is - finding support without being drawn into the extremes of either side of the discussion is nigh on impossible - so I end up itching, blistered and in pain alone!

I don't like the idea of people not being trusted to make their own judgements though - it's a fundamental principle in healthcare that, if people have mental capacity, they have that capacity and are fully able and entitled to make shitty decisions that we don't approve of - I get really uncomfortable when people want to throw that principle away for the Covid situation - I fear where it might end up taken a few steps more down the line - we need that uncrossable line in the sand as a safety measure for us all.

I work in an area where Safer to Wait picketed schools, including handing leaflets directly to 13 year old boys telling them they would become infertile and surrounding 5 year old children and pushing alarmist leaflets into their hands.

Objective and value free they are not.

'My friend sent me these links' is a well known wide eyed innocent Facebook ploy.

I thought the anti vaxxers had got bored. Seems not.

You’d think as a cardiologist he’d know about the risks of catching covid, including when your acute symptoms are only mild. He’d almost certainly be aware that for most age groups the incidence and severity of myocarditis/pericarditis is worse from covid than from the vaccine.

Here are some scientists with respectable qualifications who fully believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/

You can find scientists who deny man-made climate change too.

Just because you can find scientists who say something, it doesn't mean it's worth listening to. Look for scientific consensus instead of mavericks on tiktok.

My Dad died from covid, as did another more distant family member. Whilst they both had underlying conditions, had they not had covid, they'd still be alive.

I have several friends who are hospital consultants. All are fully vaccinated as are their families. That's good enough for me.

If anyone wants details of an online advice and support group for vaccine-injured, feel free to PM me.

You don't hear much from us because only a few NHS doctors acknowledge it and Facebook removes any posts relating to vaccine injuries!

Why is the number of excess deaths in the UK at present, 1000 per week, so high? Most are due to cardio vascular problems, not cancer.
Im pro vaccine but not for Covid, although I've had the vaccination and Covid twice. I have a friend who is paralysed since her first jab, she had to endure a second to have certification that it was the Covid vaccine that was responsible. She is in a wheelchair and has moved to accommodation suitable fir disabled people. She went to the county hospital and she wasn't the only one paralysed since receiving the vaccine. But of course nothing is made public. I do English lessons with a medical student who worked in the cardiology dept in summer 2021. Nearly all the patients were young men suffering from cardiovascular problems following vaccination.

@Hoppinggreen

Some of us who are vaccine injured are finally having it recognised by neurologists etc. In my own case there is little doubt and this has been documented.

It has been a very, very painful experience, life-changing, for many people, none of whom were anti-vaxxers (we had the vaccines, sometimes multiple). Many of us were not listened to for a very long time. Some are still struggling to access any investigations, let alone treatment.

This does not undermine the success of the Covid vaccine programme in saving lives but The Vaccine Damage Payment exists for a reason.

Oh look, they’ve arrived!

Like buses aren't they?
You'd almost think there's been a call out in one of the fringe loon corners.

Like the innocent query about antisemitism the other night, this progressed entirely as expected. Or should I say as planned?

And yet MN doesn't.

Anti vaxx nirvana.

@maskersanonymous I'm sorry to hear that. Long Covid sufferers, among far too many with varying issues, have struggled for recognition for far too long too. What is your vaccine injury?

I don’t know anyone that died from Covid. I do know of someone who had a stroke as a result of Covid.
i also have a good friend who was injured by the Pfizer vaccine. 1st dose. she nearly died and was extremely sick - weekly multiple hospital appointments for over a year. Another friend who got shingles after vaccine 2. I had weeks of terrible headaches after vaccine 2.
so it’s a gamble isn’t it
what is extremely clear is that lockdown has had terrible affects on society, that the vaccine isn’t a very good one in terms of efficacy and duration and ability to precedent spread and that 99% of young people were vaccinated totally unnecessarily given their actual risk of serious harm from Covid. Which for the vast majority is minuscule

I wish we were able to discuss this in an open-minded, curious way without the debate becoming so polarised. I have a long-term vaccine injury (happened within one minute of 2nd shot and is accepted by my country’s govt, which has been paying part of my wage for nearly a year since I can’t work fulltime again yet). I feel stuck on the middle ground, wanting to have this discussion but finding it difficult to have my voice heard in a logical way when each side of the debate is shouting at each other over the top of my head. I want to see better, safer, more effective vaccines developed and there’s much to learn from case studies like mine. Also, I’m mid-50s and, while not thrilled to have these health issues, I’ve at least enjoyed a healthy and active youth - I’m so worried about some of the younger people who I see in vaccine injury support groups. It’s a massive mental health challenge for them as well. They’re often told it’s in their heads, but there’s an increasing body of research explaining the various symptoms we’re all experiencing.

There are already many interesting research papers published on this, some here on the React19 site (set up by vaccine-injured medical professionals):

react19.org/1250-covid-vaccine-reports/

For those in need of support, I’ve found a lot of help here:

vestibular.org/forum/symptoms/tingling-numbness-in-body/paged/152/

Also, this is very much an evolving situation. As an example, initial medical advice was that the spike protein element of the vaccine would remain in the body for about 48 hours. Research has now proved this wrong (the spike is still there after 60 days, at least). This is reflected by even the CDC in America removing the 48-hour advisory from their website just this past month. To keep up with developments like this, we need to be able to talk openly and sensibly. Knowledge evolves, and we evolve with it.

I wish it was less polarised. I also saw the change in CDC reporting about the spike protein remaining. We are all vaxxed as it felt the right thing to do to prevent transmission so I’m a bit confused if that doesn’t happen why they said it did?!

to be honest, I would feel better if we could explore excess deaths. I think that would reassure many people as the cause. Because it’s a bit odd! A local doctor to me died the other week training and of course everyone blames it on the jab which is ridiculous. But how do we counter that if we don’t discuss if?

aseem M is a star in our house as his diet got my mum of her diabetes meds. Totally appreciate that’s anecdotal though!

Well I'd guess the government attitude is you need to learn to live with the vaccine injury just like you would with covid.

We had literally millions of people infected per week this year and deaths and hospitali

There's only been one definite vaccine death in UK - and it was a woman.

This claim of scores of young men dying must originate elsewhere.

There are however huge numbers of those with cardiac and cardiovascular complications of covid, including death.

There appears to be a huge impetus at the moment to ignore covid, rather than living with the realities of it (look at preparations in other EU countries if you want to see other models of how to protect the population). UK isn't even providing Evusheld to the most vulnerable FFS

Posted too soon

..hospitalisations were a fraction of what they were pre vaccine, but still high enough to strain the NHS

Some of us have covid injuries and far fewer I suspect have vaccine injuries. No one was forced to take the vaccine. For myself covid knocked me for six for months so was happy to take the risk of taking the vaccine

Pretty sure the claims of the young men dying is an anti vaxx campaign orchestrated in particular from the US but spreading outwards.Cf all the references to the CDC. Our homegrown anti vaxxers tend to focus on women's menstrual health for the MN audience , and on vaccinating children - so are quite easily spotted.

Ivermectin is being investigated as a drug for long Covid, it is NOT yet approved and may never be. It is NOT approved by the MHRA or FDA in Covid/post Covid.

For OP who asked why this subject isn’t discussed your answer is right here with a lot of the most recent posts - people with issues/an agenda stating anecdotes or opinions as facts .