Is it ok to ask about the ramping up of vaccine side effects stories?

[SparklingJam]

I’m generally pro vaccines, but I’m starting to question the effects of the covid jab, and wonder if it’s possible to have a discussion about it. Apologies if this has been done to death, or isn’t an accepted topic.

I’ve been seeing more information about deaths of young men, how the vaccine isn’t very effective against covid, and hearing all about dreadful side effects, to the point where some people won’t have the jab because they “know” they’ll die.

I can fully accept that there are side effects, but the talk of increased deaths (apparently 1300 excess deaths per week, coupled with videos of supposed undertakers saying they are 50-100% busier now) is making me question things and worry.

Having said that, in my extended circle of friends, family and colleagues, I know many people who are mostly vaccinated, and apart from a day or 5 of feeling fluey they all have no side effects and haven’t died.
At the same time through the same extended group, I know a couple who have died of covid and several who still have long covid which has disabled them to varying degrees.

It would be logical to think that the excess deaths are a catch up to lock down and lack of hospital treatment, plus the current issues many have with seeing a gp or calling an ambulance, but I am assured by certain people that the excess deaths are solely due to the vaccine.

Because the call went out?

A local doctor to me died the other week training and of course everyone blames it on the jab which is ridiculous. But how do we counter that if we don’t discuss if?

a) everyone doesn't
b) Not sure this really happened
c) we don't need to discuss it. Various processes exist in the UK for deaths in service including presumably an enquiry. These systems will be followed. there really isn't any purpose in debate/speculation/ fearmongering/ spreading rumours - other than to rev up the last two for nefarious ends.
d) many many health professionals have died from Covid, especially prior to the vaccination programme.

My brother had a 1-in-100,000 reaction to vaccine first dose and almost died.

A friend has just developed alopecia and been told it is likely to be a vaccine reaction.

My aunt died of COVID 3 weeks ago, fully vaxxed.

For me, the vaccine has had no side effects and I have not caught the virus even when my children had it.

It’s a curious thing, everyone is so different.

Told by whom?

My friend had the covid vaccine and developed superhearing.

My uncle had the covid vaccine and could suddenly speak Spanish.

Strange how we're all different isn't it?

Gosh, your friend who presumably has an associated co morbidity and family history and had the specific vaccine type is very very rare

medicalupdateonline.com/2022/03/covid-vaccination-linked-to-hair-loss/

Hundreds of links will talk about the tiny number of global cases reported of this and the lack of clear evidence of links to the vaccine. No medical person worth there salt wold say something was 'because of the vaccine' in ay sort of throwaway fashion.

This is another US generated tactic btw.

Hair loss following Covid, however, is a fairly commonly reported side effect.

their salt.

You’ve already been likened to Trump and people don’t like anyone having an independent view or demonstrating the ability to think for themselves.

absolutely this should be discussed, it’s a health scandal that shouldn’t be ignored. Don’t listen to those who are being paid to keep the misinformation going.

you won’t get much sense from posters on here, they don’t want to hear it. As is the way of online forums.

people are lazy and it’s much easier to label you (and no doubt me!) an anti vaxxer or liken you to trump than to do some thinking themselves outside what they’ve been drip fed by those making money from this.

.

Don’t listen to those who are being paid to keep the misinformation going.

Indeed, like the antivax grifter groups who have been linked to on this thread, whose chat logs detailing their plans to undermine confidence in the vaccine are available to read because they are as good at remembering to set a password as they are at scientific analysis,

Also don't listen to anyone who posts about VAERS data without some serious, serious caveats about its reliability.

Don't listen to randos off the internet detailing how loads of people they know were affected by the vaccine

If your brother had a 1 in 100,000 reaction to the jab, then so did a fuckton of other people. At those odds any vaccine or medication would have been withdrawn. Especially if that relatively common statistically speaking reaction resulted in him almost dying.

Sometimes, people who are fully vaccinated die of the diseases they are fully vaccinated against. That's how vaccines work. Never 100%.

The vaccine is fully monitored before it is released, I personally know team members of the vaccine group and they are at arms length from the drug companies and test several Pharmaceutical companies products to find the relevant strain of Covid to fight. There are hundreds of volunteers on the processes before it reaches the rollout and each test volunteer s examined in detail by doctors to ensure no dangerous side effects. No doctor wants to harm patients and the NHS wants less not more sick people.

I think it's really sad that it seems impossible to have a reasoned discussion on MN without throwing insults around and denigrating others opinions. It doesn't serve anybody.

I have only seen a couple of what I would call 'anti-vax' comments on here. Most people who are being called anti-vax just want an open - and non-aggressive discussion. Most... like myself have had multiple vaccinations and are very pro-vaccine.

But when you have personal experience of frightening and life changing illness and conditions it will inevitably give you another perspective. Being shut down is not helpful. Being attacked is not helpful. My serious illness may have nothing to do with the vaccine - but I would really like to know that before I put myself at any possible further risk. Is that too much to ask?

Try putting yourself in someone else's shoes for a change.

I am pro vaccine but I agree we need to be discussing this.

I haven't time to check out all the links, am on way out, but ? for those who have posted them: do the studies also include comparisons with groups of unvaccinated people? A 'greater than expected number of deaths' amongst vaccinated people might suggest that the vaccine is to blame, but if there is also a greater than expected number of deaths amongst the unvaccinated, it might point to other causes - eg as PP said, an increase in undiagnosed conditions due to being unable to get GP or hospital appointments over the last few years.
I know you should reasonably expect researchers to create a balanced study, but sometimes research is undertaken purely to prove a point, in which case it may not be so balanced.

I have only seen a couple of what I would call 'anti-vax' comments on here. Most people who are being called anti-vax just want an open - and non-aggressive discussion.

But it is part of the playbook to insist that you just want discussion, while making wide-eyed and innocent comments about VAERS data or how your friend sent you this interesting video (link to antivax grifter group) that has raised some questions.

I too am surprised at how Dr John Campbell has pivoted on this subject without explicitly stating it, if you watch his recent videos he does a lot of ‘alluding’ to vaccine questions, the excess deaths and breast feeding guidelines ones are prime examples.

I personally believe covid itself brings with it a whole multitude of hidden long term problems that will slowly start to become more noticeable and my own non medically trained opinion is that this is having an effect on the rise in excess deaths around the world.

Yes the vaccine still has a lot of questions that need answering but so does the virus itself. China certainly does not want it rife within its population despite their high vaccination rates which says to me it’s not as mild as we like to believe it is. Allegedly.

"China certainly does not want it rife within its population despite their high vaccination rates which says to me it’s not as mild as we like to believe it is. "

This. Issues with effluent and power generation shows that democracies or at least the UK are not good at long term planning or thinking. The fact that China is still actively suppressing the virus suggests they may place more emphasis on the potential longer term effects.

Agreed
They are still here and still as wrong but more subtle about it these days

I used to work in a field that involved clinical studies. 2 people on one drug died in separate car crashes
So in fact the clinical studies could legitimately show that if you took this drug you were more likely to die in a car crash than on the placebo.
Its in the detail not the headlines but guess what these people use?

Pointing out the long term effects of a Covid infection or multiple Covid infections would be doom mongering though.

Same people when anyone mentions covid deaths would be right in there with deaths FROM covid or WITH covid??? So they do get the distinction when convenient.

fullfact.org/health/covid-vaccines-heart-disease/

"Dr Malhotra did not mention is that the journal which published an abstract of the research has issued an “expression of concern” about it, noting that it contains “potential errors” and “may not be reliable”.

"Another issue is that the study doesn’t actually measure the risk of heart attacks directly, but the PULS score.

There is little evidence on why this might be a reliable metric to measure the risk of heart attacks"

Think this might have happened in one of the HPV vaccine studies too. One of the perils of using all cause mortality as an indicator.

I tend to ignore science from tik tok and the like

i suggest you do too OP

if it’s not in peer reviewed research, it’s just nonsense