Do you think the NHS will really fire all unvaccinated staff?

[IncompleteSenten]

I just can't bring myself to believe that will happen. Surely it must be bully boy tactics and at the last minute they'll back down.

The NHS can barely cope now. How the hell is it going to cope with, what? 80,000-100,00 fewer staff?

@GirlInACountrySong

They must also be changing their hiring policy so you have to take proof along to an interview?

Madness. Restrictions are lifting so covid is obviously something to just live aside now

I work in recruitment, and that's exactly what's happening, and they won't even consider people who are booked in to do vaccinate and said they will for the job but not yet had chance to do it.

I'm working with a private medical company too who have said the same thing.

The legislation has passed. It applies to all CQC registered services. That’s private and publicly funded.

Pretty clear that HSC organisations must implement. Otherwise they breach CQC requirements and can be forced to close. But CQC could slow down enforcement.

Pretty clear they are on safe ground to sack someone who is in scope. You can challenge process but not outcome.

Data on actual numbers is unreliable.

Numbers impacted in Care Homes was far far far lower than headlines.

Mitigations include advice and information for staff. Taking people out of scope so they aren’t in contact with patients. Redeployment, priority recruitment routes and support finding new job.

@SD1978

We have here- I'm in Australia, and not just for HCW, many industries have. It's worked. We have a 92% rate in over 18's and minimal deaths.

I wish Australia could spread some of their education over here. The misinformation spread by many anti vaxers is unbelievable.

It’s kind of too late to stop now. As you have to have had your first vaccine by the start of Feb, several of my colleagues already have new jobs and are starting them. So they have already resigned.

@User1isnotavailable

“God help any non-Covid patient in a hospital right now. They are sitting ducks,” one nurse told Guardian Australia.

“It’s like everyone has given up. I’m absolutely devastated. It’s a circus … positive nurses working with healthy staff and non-Covid patients.
Nurses who expressed concern about allowing Covid-positive colleagues to return to work stressed that the advice was given in an unofficial capacity, as managers were left with few other options to ensure patients could be cared for.
The revelation comes days after Guardian Australia obtained a leaked memo that revealed critically understaffed public hospitals in NSW were planning to fly in nurses from overseas.

The law is already in place. It would take another law to overturn it now. My understanding is that that is not possible within the timeframe.
I still think they will somehow backtrack before 1 April but I don't understand how they can legally.
It will affect very few doctors and relatively few nurses but lots of midwives as I understand from local conversations.

And most will not be able to work in the private sector as that is still required to be registered with cqc

Well good luck finding jobs then… maybe they could train as HGV drivers?

Now they will blame the collapse of the NHS on the unvaccinated. How convenient

The rules seem designed to fail…,

I don't personally think that people who don't believe in science or medicine have any business working for the NHS. Particularly in a patient facing role. Just why would they even want to continue to do so unless they're massive hypocrites?

I think it is terrible especially having seen the top vaccine man from Israel saying there is very little transmission difference between the vax and un vax with Omicron.

I saw on a Human Rights site that the employer must set out very clearly any harms(+risk benefits) that a mandated vaccine could cause employees, They thought with the current situation there are potential court cases over it not being done or not being able to be done to an acceptable standard. No idea if that is correct

I'm nhs and I know my service are currently gearing up for the loss of staff, I'm a mental health trust so yes I think the plan is that will be forced to xx

@SD1978

We have here- I'm in Australia, and not just for HCW, many industries have. It's worked. We have a 92% rate in over 18's and minimal deaths.

The problem with British people is that that they (we) are too arrogant.

@Malibuismysecrethome

Completely irresponsible of the NHS if they lose all their staff due to this decision. I don’t see how it is enforceable.

"Completely irresponsible of the NHS the entire health and social care sector if they lose all their staff due to this decision. I don’t see how it is enforceable"

FTFY. Wish everyone would stop spouting this as purely on the NHS. This is a government decision and soley blaming the NHS when private healthcare and social care settings must comply too is playing RIGHT into the hands of the NHS blaming Tory narrative

Its idiotic if they do - but I don't think they will, little bits of info leaning towards not doing it are already appearing in the press

@Ontheblink

Now they will blame the collapse of the NHS on the unvaccinated. How convenient

Exactly, and not on the vast number of other health and social care settings that ALSO have to comply with this.

No. Totally on the NHS and nothing to do with any other org. Especially not the Tory government. Definitely not them. No way.

The nhs isn’t going to collapse.

Disregard that. I misread.

The unvaccinated can do what they like, but that is entierly on them. They will be the ones getting infected, having to take time off work anyway and potentially putting pressure on the NHS at best.

At worst they will end up dead, but if thats how they want to go then that's their choice.

Judicial review of government might be another avenue, before the government restricts that avenue. Expensive, either way

Judicial review won't look at the merits of the case for the decision.

It will examine if those who maybe the decision had the power to make it, and that the relevant processes in making it were properly applied.

As there is abundant precedent for requiring staff in certain roles to be vaccinated against certain diseases, and I've seen nothing to suggest that the government des not have the power to do this, then o wouldn't expect a jududcial review to set it aside.

Given that the government is omnishambles on many administrative aspects, then there might have been something wrong with the processes (I don't know) but even if there were, it may well not be sufficient to halt it. Though there might need to be a small administrative delay whilst any processes were corrected

I've not heard that anyineis lining naing it to judicial review. Has anyone? Because the unions would be able to afford it, if they thought a) it was in their members' interests and b) there was any prospect of succcess

Quite a few companies like Next and Morrisons have said they're not prepared to pay sick pay for unvaccinated people who have to take time off due to Covid illness or self-isolation.

^^whynotwhatknot
They have to have hep B vaccine dont they so i dont see the difference really-only that it wasnt in ther contract i suppose

Hep B vaccine will greatly reduce your chances of catching/passing on this disease. The covid vaccine does NOT stop spread and this is where I have a problem with it being mandatory. It’s madness mandating something that doesn’t stop you passing it on to someone else.

@IncompleteSenten

I just can't bring myself to believe that will happen. Surely it must be bully boy tactics and at the last minute they'll back down.

The NHS can barely cope now. How the hell is it going to cope with, what? 80,000-100,00 fewer staff?

Yes it will happen"

Non vaccinated staff have until 3rd feb to have their first vaccine otherwise measures will be in place to start termination of contracts by 1.4.22.

There will be no leniency or grace period. It’s a legal requirement, so not up for debate and nothing the nhs can do but follow it whatever your political leanings.

They're making a rod for their own back, they're on about firing thousands of staff when they're already understaffed. Good luck with that.

The rules will also apply to all bank and locum staff.