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that is one brave doctor

501 replies

MrsLargeEmbodied · 09/01/2022 09:20

to speak about not having the vaccination
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/08/nhs-doctor-challenges-sajid-javid-over-covid-vaccination-rules

he has had a lot of support

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 09/01/2022 12:03

@toomuchlaundry

Some people thought Dr Wakefield was being brave and talking sense about not vaccinating with MMR. That didn’t turn out well
Wakefield was also self-interested in speaking out, with his own business that would profit.
PAFMO · 09/01/2022 12:04

@Mrbob

Is he the one who runs a clinic which will benefit hugely from people getting Covid? I would prefer my ICU doctor to work based on science. He clearly doesn’t.
Yep. That's the one. It's all a bit like Wakefield being the one working on individual vaccines for MMR and at the same time who'd-have-thought-it "discovering" the fake link to autism. This man is a charlatan.
Mojoj · 09/01/2022 12:04

I'll choose to believe the professional, ta.

ClaudineClare · 09/01/2022 12:04

God, this is turning into the usual anti-vax bingo-fest. Curse Steve James!

PAFMO · 09/01/2022 12:06

@Mojoj

I'll choose to believe the professional, ta.
So you should. So do I. What are your qualifications?
CorrBlimeyGG · 09/01/2022 12:07

He's stupid, not because of his choice not to have the vaccine, but because he's validated a bunch of idiotic anti vaxxers. I doubt very much that he intended to become poster boy for the hard of thinking.

SeeminglyOblivious · 09/01/2022 12:08

I find it amusing how those strongly in favour of the vaccine scream that we must follow the science and listen to medical professionals...until of course, a medical professional refuses to tow the party line and has a different opinion. Then his intelligence, qualifications, background are picked apart in order to discredit him.

He makes absolutely sensible points. Vaccines don't give lasting immunity. If the aim is for all NHS staff to have a high level of protection from catching the virus through vaccination, the Government need to implement bi-monthly vaccines as a minimum for all NHS staff. If they don't do this, making vaccination compulsory is pointless.

XenoBitch · 09/01/2022 12:09

I think he is brave for speaking out, but I also think doing so was stupid. Not for his views, but because now he has just opened himself up for people seeking to discredit him and his career.

His qualifications and experience were good enough when he was saving lives pre-vaccine. They are good enough until whatever date it it his he will have to have the fist vaccine by and then suddenly he is deemed dangerous and must be sacked.

People clapped for people like him every Thursday. Now those same people want him sacked.

toomuchlaundry · 09/01/2022 12:10

So he is very much like Wakefield

ChateauMargaux · 09/01/2022 12:11

We do need scientists, doctors and others to be able to speak out and talk about the options, the benefits and the risks of all routes forward. This is an unprecedented situation which has taken unexpected turns and has an unpredictable future. The vaccinations were developed in record time (regardless of what people say to counteract that fact) and the reality is that the vaccines wane quickly. We need to carry on looking at the ongoing effectiveness of the vaccine, the ongoing risks posed by the virus and we need to continue to explore all options that are available to us, whether that be improvements in testing, improvements in treatment, improvements in vaccines... this virus has not stood still, neither can we.

It is not easy to speak out or pose questions these days when your face and words are spread all over the media, when opinions from closed government meetings are leaked to the press, when public opinion is carefully managed and the mob culture on twitter prevents the true and free expression of opinions. When we teach our children critical thinking at school, we teach them to question sources, to explore around the subject, to investigate alternatives and present counter arguments. We cannot allow these important skills to be silenced because we believe the answer to be already here.

We do not have the answer to Coronavirus. The further we progress through this pandemic, the more it becomes obvious that mass vaccination of the entire global population every 10 weeks, is not the answer, neither from a clinical perspective, an efficient use of resources nor an environmental perspective.

What might work... well, we might find a drug that prevents the serious lung related effects of coronavirus that can be taken once you start to show symptoms, that would only need to be given to positive cases, in the UK that would be 14M cases so far. Testing might become more efficient, we might also be able to assess who is more likely to suffer severe effects and to focus our efforts on those.

As with many other topics, we hear the loudest voices, when other voices speak up and are silenced, we have no idea how large that body of opinion is, unless we give it space to be heard. I stand by the freedom of speech.

ancientgran · 09/01/2022 12:15

@MrsLargeEmbodied you can't see the issue? No I can't. No one is making him have the vaccine. He can't carry on doing his role in the NHS if he doesn't but that is his choice.

One of my kids is a nurse, they had to have certain vaccines before they could even start at uni, TB and HepB if I remember correctly. They had a choice and decided to have the vaccinations, they have now had the covid vaccination again they had the choice.

soredust · 09/01/2022 12:16

What a brilliant doctor! Hopefully more will speak out against this ridiculous mandate.

iBrows · 09/01/2022 12:16

Good for him.

There is no magic money tree to fund vaccinating everyone every couple of months. I’m vaccinated but I can understand other points of view and that doctor is entitled to his.

Maelstrom23 · 09/01/2022 12:17

Fully agree with @Babdoc.
This doctor is irresponsible.

ancientgran · 09/01/2022 12:17

@Awakened22

He was asked his opinion on the mandates and shared his thoughts. My take on it was that he was saying the science isn’t strong enough to support mandates and sacking staff.

Say you had 2 doctors, one double jabbed with a last jab in August. With waning immunity and Omicron, they would probably now have little protection against infection but can keep their job even if not boosted. Second doctor unvaccinated but had Covid in December so likely to have immunity and high levels of antibodies will get sacked. That doesn’t make sense to me. If they mandate vaccines then the mandate should include the need for boosters every 2-3 months to maintain higher levels of protection against infection.

Would it not make sense for regular antibody testing (and maybe T cell) amongst healthcare workers to check for levels of immunity? And LFTs before starting a shift?

He wasn't asked, Sajid Javid was facing a group (I think it was all women but certainly mainly women) and he asked them the question. This doctor was standing behind him, quite clear on TV as Javid turned round when he spoke. So no he wasn't asked a question, he poked his nose in.
Turquoisesea · 09/01/2022 12:18

So he was asked a question and gave an answer during an interview with his personal opinion about mandatory vaccines and now he is being compared to Andrew Wakefield - that’s a pretty big leap!

RoRoYoYo · 09/01/2022 12:19

He's highly irresponsible. I don't know a single medical professional that shares his point of view. I do know people that have been working on covid wards and despair at the number of young, unvaccinated people being admitted.

The vaccine companies are working on a polyvalent vaccine so hopefully before long it will simply be an annual vaccine required just like the flu jab.

CTR1000 · 09/01/2022 12:20

My opinion is that he’s an idiot who doesn’t understand the interpretation of trial data. He also has a private practice which sees patients with unexplained breathlessness. He’s clearly hoping to benefit financially from seeing (private) patients with Long Covid - he has an actual interest in as many people being infected as possible!

As a fellow medic I’m hoping that the GMC might have something to say about him.

Maelstrom23 · 09/01/2022 12:21

This doctor runs a private practice 'the Breathless clinic". He therefore has a vested interest.

Turquoisesea · 09/01/2022 12:21

So he ‘poked his nose in’ because you didn’t like what he said but if he had agreed with mandatory vaccination you would have been happy he spoke up!

Awakened22 · 09/01/2022 12:23

@ancientgran his colleagues were clearly uncomfortable with the question or didn’t want to answer so he stepped in. If he’d “stuck his nose in” and was very pro-mandate would you still have an issue?

ancientgran · 09/01/2022 12:23

@Turquoisesea

So he ‘poked his nose in’ because you didn’t like what he said but if he had agreed with mandatory vaccination you would have been happy he spoke up!
No I was responding to someone saying he was asked a question. That isn't factually true. There is also the issue of the big clever man needing to answer for the poor little women.
Maelstrom23 · 09/01/2022 12:24

I also don't know a single consultant anaesthetist, doctor or hospital dentist who hold his views in my hospital. The poster who said he's probably the resident knobhead in the Unit corner is spot on.

dittymcdit · 09/01/2022 12:24

@Turquoisesea

So he was asked a question and gave an answer during an interview with his personal opinion about mandatory vaccines and now he is being compared to Andrew Wakefield - that’s a pretty big leap!
He wasn't asked, he made the choice to offer his opinion. His personal opinion that he well knows will encourage anti vaxxers and those who are still undecided to see the vaccine as unnecessary or worse. He chose to share thar opinion whilst being filmed. He's a fucking irresponsible idiot who deserves to be disciplined.
ancientgran · 09/01/2022 12:25

[quote Awakened22]@ancientgran his colleagues were clearly uncomfortable with the question or didn’t want to answer so he stepped in. If he’d “stuck his nose in” and was very pro-mandate would you still have an issue?[/quote]
Was he asked a question? No he wasn't so people who keep saying well he was asked a question are wrong, they would still be wrong if he'd said anything else. Is you think what he said is fine that that is your opinion but it still doesn't mean he was asked a question.