that is one brave doctor

[MrsLargeEmbodied]

to speak about not having the vaccination
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/08/nhs-doctor-challenges-sajid-javid-over-covid-vaccination-rules

he has had a lot of support

Your friends daughter should not be testing again until after 90 days of first positive test.

Wrong. If you have symptoms you need to test.

Please tell me why @Northernshepherd ? I don't work with extremely vulnerable people and I don't have a medical condition that would prevent me from having the vaccine. I don't however want to be responsible for passing it on and ideally don't want to have a severe case that sees me risk infecting my daughter / her nursery / my partner because I'm not a dick.

I know several doctors who work in London hospitals and not one of them has suggested they shouldn't be vaccinated.

Omicron will see covid basically turn into a cold like virus every year now, it was his choice entirely not too have the vaccines they don't not need to be pumping them into people now. The NHS cannot afford to lose staff but then again I am sure the government knew what was going to happen all along hence why they said Spring. So now they will not impose it as they don't need to as it is very highly unlikely that a variant will come along that will be as severe as those we have seen in the past.

Saying he's got natural immunity doesn't stop him getting a vaccine. A vaccine is not going to take away that natural immunity, it will either do nothing or increase your immunity. Hes still not given a reason to not have the vaccine

He will only lose his job if he refuses the vaccine. Just as he would lose his job if he refused his hep B vaccine, or his BCG or MMR. If he refused to renew his GMC license, if he refused to do his Life support training. If he refused to keep up to date with CPD. He has freedom of choice. Having a covid vaccine is one of the lesser requirements tbh of being a consultant anaesthetist

I was told about the 90 day rule for the lft following getting covid in mid November and only to get a pcr done if I had any symptoms
My employer ( school ) changed this last Sunday and I'm now back to twice weekly lft !

@thecatfromjapan

I'm tired of this anti-vaccination stuff on MN.

It's beyond irresponsible.

It's not anti vaccination. What he said was about pro choice it's a very different thing. At no point did he say that vaccines weren't useful. I think a lot of people are unable to understand what is being said. It is a very basic concept.

So what is this doctor trying to say, that the science so far is all nonsense and the government has wasted all that money on something that is pointless!!!
There are plenty of other doctors and professors who would disagree.
He is doing terrible harm spouting this nonsense.

I think if asked he can be honest and that’s fine, and having to use a booster so often is a good point.

But I’m glad it wasn’t earlier when we were trying to get rates as high as possible. By now most have had it or decided not to

But I’m pro vaccine and pro choice and really do not want to see HCP go due to this.

he is fit and healthy, is what he is saying. he is not vulnerable.

Considering that the European Medical Agency is perfectly transparent and sensible about the fact that trials on covid vaccines are not yet completed and much is still unknown about them, the points being made by the doctor in the video seem perfectly reasonable.

On Pfizer for example www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/comirnaty

@FflosFfantastig he said they give less than 8 weeks reduction in transmission. He hasn't had one and won't be getting one. He pretty much said vaccination was pointless

He did not say he supported people's right to free choice, he didn't actually talk about choice he talked about himself not having a vaccine, and refusing to get one for some unknown reason. Its clearly anti-vacc. Hes hardly encouraged people to get vaccinated has he?

If you support free chiice, responsibly you could talk about the benefits of vaccination, the safety of vaccination and encourage people to get vaccinated whilst still supporting their right to make that informed choice. Hes basically just said I don't want a vaccine

"But, if someone doesn't want the vaccine because to them there are low risks or because they had had it and it was mild then I don't think you can force people. It's counterproductive."

What about if they think they are low risk, but actually aren't? The Bogdanov brothers, famous in France, said they were too healthy to need it. They were 72 and both died recently.

Why is he brave?

Lots of people hold these views

@Luredbyapomegranate

Why is he brave?

Lots of people hold these views

he spoke out

Some people thought Dr Wakefield was being brave and talking sense about not vaccinating with MMR. That didn’t turn out well

I can’t get into the data table on the consultation response to see how many people actually supported this initiative?
The concept of free consent to treatment is a cornerstone of medical practice, I can’t understand why people don’t understand why HCP would oppose removing that. Although a lot of people seem to not understand the current situation, no other vaccines are mandatory.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

to speak about not having the vaccination www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/08/nhs-doctor-challenges-sajid-javid-over-covid-vaccination-rules

he has had a lot of support

Yes, he's had a lot of support on the other threads about it started by anti-vaxxers over the last few days.

I know you were just changing the words in another post @GiveMeNovocain but
*I'm tired of all this anti immune system stuff on mn

It's beyond unscientific*
Is ridiculous. There are at least 150,000 people whose immune system didn't work against Covid. There are half a million people whose immune system has to be suppressed because it's attacking them and a whole lot more who live with their immune system causing them difficulties. A 2018 report put the number at 4 million and rising in the UK.

@Mojoj, that is a lie.
"Having antibodies" doesn't mean the vaccination isn't necessary.
Prior infection plus vaccination gives the greatest protection against further infection.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

why is Dr Meena Viz brave?

Because of working with Covid patients while pregnant and with gestational diabetes, and a husband also in A&E in a different hospital, for starters?

www.businessinsider.com/astrazeneca-vaccine-pregnant-doctor-felt-relieved-2021-2?r=US&IR=T

plenty of brave nhs staff @Ormally

in this instance i am calling him brave for speaking out

[quote MrsLargeEmbodied]www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm[/quote]
That just goes to what is playing now (is about cars).

I found the interview though...

Is from 8:45
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00138rb

He was asked his opinion on the mandates and shared his thoughts. My take on it was that he was saying the science isn’t strong enough to support mandates and sacking staff.

Say you had 2 doctors, one double jabbed with a last jab in August. With waning immunity and Omicron, they would probably now have little protection against infection but can keep their job even if not boosted. Second doctor unvaccinated but had Covid in December so likely to have immunity and high levels of antibodies will get sacked. That doesn’t make sense to me. If they mandate vaccines then the mandate should include the need for boosters every 2-3 months to maintain higher levels of protection against infection.

Would it not make sense for regular antibody testing (and maybe T cell) amongst healthcare workers to check for levels of immunity? And LFTs before starting a shift?