that is one brave doctor

[MrsLargeEmbodied]

to speak about not having the vaccination
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/08/nhs-doctor-challenges-sajid-javid-over-covid-vaccination-rules

he has had a lot of support

I don't like how divisive this is. I am triple vaccinated. In my house we had COVID recently. DS is unvaccinated (medical reasons) and had symptoms, then DP got it (double vaccinated) and very mild symptoms. Despite my sharing a bed with him I didn't get it. So in my opinion this suggests to me that the vaccine works. We also all had it about 18mths ago.

But, if someone doesn't want the vaccine because to them there are low risks or because they had had it and it was mild then I don't think you can force people. It's counterproductive.

It's not clear why this doc doesn't want it. He either thinks he's had it and it's no big deal or he is worried about side effects or both. Or that he is probably immune. Who knows. And he might be right until a more deadly version evolves.

@noblegiraffe

I don't know anything about the long term effects of covid. How could I? It hasn't been around long enough for even scientists to fully understand. I am not a qualified professional and I was simply voicing my opinion. I thought I made that clear with my final sentence.

Not sure how my comment is one sided. I clearly stated that for older/vulnerable individuals it makes sense to take the vaccine. I simply believe we should all be able to weigh up risk/benefit and make decisions about our own bodies. I believe we should be able to discuss and debate without being insulted and made to feel selfish and stupid. I am not saying the vaccines are bad at all. I am saying that despite having all of my vaccinations up to this point, and my kids having all of theirs too, I am reluctant to believe based on my understanding of the information so far that taking these vaccines is the right decision for me at this time.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

he is fit and healthy, and has not seen fit and healthy people in icu, where he has been working throughout covid

Well he isn't going to see fit and healthy people in icu, you don't go into icu if you are healthy.

@Turquoisesea

Why is he a fool? So say if he’s had an antibody test and has the same antibodies as somebody who has been triple vaccinated, shouldn’t that count for something? All he was saying is that natural infection is not being taken into account. And for those that say ICU is full of the unvaccinated you do know they are counting unboostered (but double or single jabbed) in those figures now. It would be interesting to see how many are in ICU having previously had covid. I really think all these shouts of him being a fool or irresponsible are counter productive and will do nothing to persuade people who are already worried about endless jabs. And he was saying about why he personally didn’t want the vaccine. He’s just rattled people because he’s a Doctor, no one would care if they had interviewed someone in the supermarket, they would just be labelled a stupid, irresponsible anti-vaxxer and that is the problem, no one can give a different point of view without being labelled as dangerous, anti-science etc. He was asked a question and he answered it in the context of mandatory vaccination for NHS staff.

But the British Society for Immunology has clearly stated that "It's likely that for most people vaccination against COVID-19 will induce more effective and longer lasting immunity than that induced by natural infection with the virus. Even if you've had COVID-19, you're recommended to get the vaccine because it will boost whatever immunity you have from natural infection."

www.immunology.org/coronavirus/connect-coronavirus-public-engagement-resources/covid-immunity-infection-vaccine

but how many boosters are required was also his argument

@MrsLargeEmbodied

he is arguing that the booster will need to be done every 8 weeks, and now we have omecron which is milder there is less need - he was braver than his colleagues who remained mute

I got the impression that his colleagues were cringing. I bet a lot of eye rolling goes on behind his back.

The anti-vaxxers have taken this and run with it. I wonder how happy this doctor is to be held up as a hero by the likes of Laurence Fox?

@Jewel1968

I don't like how divisive this is. I am triple vaccinated. In my house we had COVID recently. DS is unvaccinated (medical reasons) and had symptoms, then DP got it (double vaccinated) and very mild symptoms. Despite my sharing a bed with him I didn't get it. So in my opinion this suggests to me that the vaccine works. We also all had it about 18mths ago.

But, if someone doesn't want the vaccine because to them there are low risks or because they had had it and it was mild then I don't think you can force people. It's counterproductive.

It's not clear why this doc doesn't want it. He either thinks he's had it and it's no big deal or he is worried about side effects or both. Or that he is probably immune. Who knows. And he might be right until a more deadly version evolves.

I don't think you should force people but there are jobs where it seems reasonable to do anything you can to reduce the risk to others. He is dealing with sick people so even if the vaccine only reduces the risk of him infecting them slightly that is still worth it. At least for me as a nearly 70 year old it seems worth it, I want medical staff to keep me safe by washing their hands and wearing masks and having appropriate vaccinations.

i can understand his point of view,
same with those in their 20s who may need persuading,

I don't know anything about the long term effects of covid. How could I?

Because, Minecraft, there's a lot of research going on out there and being published about damage to organs. You can't have missed the concept of 'long covid' for example.

And yet you only talk about the risks of the vaccine. 'Many young males with heart issues'? Define 'many'? And you know that the risk of heart issues with covid is higher, yes?

Any nuance in his position will be lost when clips are used by the antivax movement to help promote their cause. Will be sadly very damaging for public health. But great publicity for his private breathlessness clinic 😡

who is publicising his private clinic
he wants to have a conversation about mandatory vaccines.

@HaveringWavering

Yes, so he is saying he doesn't want the vaccine because he thinks he doesn't need it as he already has antibodies

You're just repeating yourself @OneLove12. What is the downside to him of having a vaccine he doesn't need?

Yes this. Because the downside to him NOT having it is that he's going to lose his job. Why is he willing to lose his job, his career? It makes zero sense. Is someone paying him to do this?

he doesnt want to lose his job

I have no doubt whatsoever that without the triple jabs that I’ve had I would probably be on a ventilator or dead right now.

Are you immunosuppressed?

@MrsLargeEmbodied

he doesnt want to lose his job

So why refuse to do something that will do you no harm and allow you to keep it?

@thecatfromjapan

I'm tired of this anti-vaccination stuff on MN.

It's beyond irresponsible.

Its not irresponsible to discuss a clip shown on sky news of an NHS dr.

This isn’t a mad conspiracy theory, he hasn’t said the vaccines are dangerous or that other people shouldn’t have them. And Javid had the opportunity to give the opposing view (even if he did so very poorly by mumbling about following science rather than explaining the science coherently).
I’ve had three doses, I’m not anti vax, and neither is this clip. People are allowed different views and should be allowed to discuss them, as long as it’s not demonstrably false scaremongering like microchips, or “everyone who has had the vaccine will definitely die” nonsense.

he wants freedom of choice and for it not to be mandatory

he wants informed consent

He may just be the resident knobend who everyone rolls their eyes at behind his back.

He has freedom of choice, can't see the issue.

@ancientgran

He has freedom of choice, can't see the issue.

you can't see the issue?

he hasn’t said the vaccines are dangerous or that other people shouldn’t have them

But he knows full well that, given his job, the anti vax brigade will interpret his words as meaning this,people with no immunity will not get vaccinated and more will die. He should think harder about his obligation to "Do no harm" .

Is he the one who runs a clinic which will benefit hugely from people getting Covid?
I would prefer my ICU doctor to work based on science. He clearly doesn’t.

units will close
there are plenty in the nhs/social care who do not want the mandatory vaccine
it is a headache

Given he works at a hospital in an area of South London which has seen many many deaths and will be working with pregnant women and very newborns he sounds like a selfish twat tbh.