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Original poster

Sajid javid

391 replies

Worried456776 · 07/01/2022 19:53

news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224

Well done to this docter for standing up for himself.

OP posts:
Original poster
Worried456776 · 07/01/2022 22:23

@chopc

I think he is trying to say what’s the point in the boosters or vaccines because they just wear off and they won’t just continually administer boosters every 1-2 months. I agree with him I’m double vaxed and won’t be having a booster it just cannot be good for your body.

OP posts:
InCahootswithOrwell · 07/01/2022 22:24

@WonderfulYou

Although I disagree with this doctor, I also don’t believe in forced vaccinations and think there needs to be some system where they should only be allowed to work with people who aren’t already vulnerable.
I think redeployment is probably quite likely rather than being sacked.

I’d be interested to see a breakdown of job roles of the unvaxxed frontline NHS staff if there is one.

IrrelevantNameChange · 07/01/2022 22:25

You said he doesn’t trust medicine, that’s obviously not true. He doesn’t want this particular drug, that is very different from not trusting medicine. I’m sure he is more than capable of assessing an evidence base in relation to his individual circumstances, whatever his speciality.

riveted1 · 07/01/2022 22:28

[quote Worried456776]@chopc

I think he is trying to say what’s the point in the boosters or vaccines because they just wear off and they won’t just continually administer boosters every 1-2 months. I agree with him I’m double vaxed and won’t be having a booster it just cannot be good for your body.[/quote]
it just cannot be good for your body

Repeated exposure to the pathogen is fine, but a booster vaccine of just the antigen is not?

Again, this is misunderstanding of how vaccines work & how side effects are caused.

Choosing not to be vaccinated is your choice, but it is frustrating that so many are doing this based on misinformation like the doctor quoted in the article.

riveted1 · 07/01/2022 22:29

@IrrelevantNameChange

You said he doesn’t trust medicine, that’s obviously not true. He doesn’t want this particular drug, that is very different from not trusting medicine. I’m sure he is more than capable of assessing an evidence base in relation to his individual circumstances, whatever his speciality.
......not a drug

the evidence is very clear that it is better for someone in his demographic to be vaccinated than not vaccinated, he is choosing to ignore expert advice on this.

SparklingXmas · 07/01/2022 22:30

Redeployment is just a red herring- staff will be sacked, they have until the 3/2/22 to get their first jab, if they don’t, notice periods will be given. Harsh but true and we will lose a lot of staff from the acute trusts, primary care and dentistry

purpleme12 · 07/01/2022 22:31

@SparklingXmas

Redeployment is just a red herring- staff will be sacked, they have until the 3/2/22 to get their first jab, if they don’t, notice periods will be given. Harsh but true and we will lose a lot of staff from the acute trusts, primary care and dentistry
This is very scary
riveted1 · 07/01/2022 22:32

@SparklingXmas

Redeployment is just a red herring- staff will be sacked, they have until the 3/2/22 to get their first jab, if they don’t, notice periods will be given. Harsh but true and we will lose a lot of staff from the acute trusts, primary care and dentistry
Where did you get that info from @SparklingXmas?

It seems illogical if this policy does indeed go ahead to not redeploy staff.

godmum56 · 07/01/2022 22:35

@InCahootswithOrwell

You know how on every ward/specialty there’s a doctor who thinks he’s God’s gift and always right even when he isn’t and everyone else just thinks he’s a prick?

I think he might be the prick. I’m getting strong vibes. Not least because I’m pretty sure his scientific argument is wrong particularly the bit about how his antibody protection from getting delta is better than somebody who is jabbed, or it would be if he was jabbed. And I don’t really follow his argument that people will need boosting every month.

I agree. I wouldn't argue with him about anaesthesiology but he may know shit about immunology. Being a specialist in one field means zip when the issue is not within their specialism. I wouldn't want an orthopod treatting my stroke or a cardiologist replacing my hip.
Ohthebloodyjoys · 07/01/2022 22:39

Fair play to that doctor. The government literally couldn't have chosen something more unsuitable to 'not think through' before implementing. Anybody would think they deliberately want the NHS to crash and burn 🤔

nojudgementhere · 07/01/2022 22:39

@Tealightsandd

There's no integrity in putting the most vulnerable at unnecessary extra risk. Very much the opposite.

If he had integrity he wouldn't be working in science and medicine when he doesn't trust science and medicine.

I think it takes tremendous integrity to stand up for what you believe in when faced with losing your job and almost universal disapproval. He already has antibodies and people who are vaccinated can catch and transmit Covid too so the mandate makes no logical sense. The people who lack integrity are the ones who clapped on their doorsteps for him but now want him sacked.
godmum56 · 07/01/2022 22:39

@IrrelevantNameChange

You said he doesn’t trust medicine, that’s obviously not true. He doesn’t want this particular drug, that is very different from not trusting medicine. I’m sure he is more than capable of assessing an evidence base in relation to his individual circumstances, whatever his speciality.
again its not that simple. People who work in medicine may trust aspects of it and not others. I will have to be in very dire straits indeed before I let an orthopaedic surgeon lay a finger on me.
Wrongkindofovercoat · 07/01/2022 22:40

Is he the same Doctor who runs a private breathlessness clinic ?

MarshaBradyo · 07/01/2022 22:41

@SparklingXmas

Redeployment is just a red herring- staff will be sacked, they have until the 3/2/22 to get their first jab, if they don’t, notice periods will be given. Harsh but true and we will lose a lot of staff from the acute trusts, primary care and dentistry
This concerns me a lot too

All that training and expertise, in areas with supply issues

How likely is it to change.. I suppose it won’t

Tealightsandd · 07/01/2022 22:41

This is very scary

Isn't it! To think that people who don't believe in, trust, or understand medicine and science are working in medicine and science. Including around very vulnerable patients.

Illogical? What's not logical is someone who doesn't trust science and medicine working in science and medicine.

The logical thing to do would be to seek alternative more appropriate employment.

Beautiful3 · 07/01/2022 22:41

The vaccination is only effective for 8 weeks?! What's the point of it?! A 4th vaccine is needed soon? Wtf, a booster every 8 weeks? No thanks!

Sajid javid
godmum56 · 07/01/2022 22:42

@InCahootswithOrwell

For the non-HCPs who’ve never been in the receiving end of this, I can do it without (I think) casting aspersions in his character.

He doesn’t appear to be speaking from a position of knowledge. He’s got his scientific understanding of this wrong, and quite obviously in some places of his argument. Possibly because, I’m guessing, this isn’t his speciality.

And it matters because people will see this and assume because he is a doctor he’s an expert and he understands the science. If he’d stuck to non scientific arguments about the morals and opinions he can say whatever he likes. He’s entitled to an opinion.

Was a crap question to spring on them. WTF was Saj thinking?

This absolutely. I do wonder who set up this meeting and why?
SparklingXmas · 07/01/2022 22:42

If they can’t be redeployed then they will go. How can you redeploy a dentist? How can you redeploy a gp? A nurse? A physio? By getting them to do admin work? The numbers and roles do not stack up. I don’t think people have cottoned on yet, it leaves the nhs short and those that stay will leave due to being burned out and stretched further.

Tealightsandd · 07/01/2022 22:43

Thankfully it is, it seems, a relative minority. 90% of HCP are vaccinated. London is an outlier. Very concerning for the vulnerable there.

Tealightsandd · 07/01/2022 22:43

@Beautiful3

The vaccination is only effective for 8 weeks?! What's the point of it?! A 4th vaccine is needed soon? Wtf, a booster every 8 weeks? No thanks!
That is misinformation.
Lunaduckdrop · 07/01/2022 22:46

As it isn't his area of expertise his opinion is of no more importance than that of any other Joe Public. Why all the publicity? Is he a mate of Novax Tennis-Elbow? Better to listen to what immunologists have to say.

godmum56 · 07/01/2022 22:48

@Beautiful3

The vaccination is only effective for 8 weeks?! What's the point of it?! A 4th vaccine is needed soon? Wtf, a booster every 8 weeks? No thanks!
Can I ask where you got thsi information from? The fact that an anaesthesiologist said it does not make it true.....Its like a plumber making statements about electricity.
Rupertpenrysmistress · 07/01/2022 22:49

As a senior NHS nurse I have been issued guidelines and forms to complete with my staff that are currently not vaccinated. The idea being that they will be redeployed to non patient facing roles, not sure how this works in terms of shifts and banding

I think Saj should not have asked that question, the staff in blue looked like nurses and tbh if I were one of them I would have kept quiet. In my experience Drs get away with saying things or disagreeing with seniors, no one really questions them, nurse however do not.

I am not sure what will happen but my trust have issued dates for staffs last vaccination so it seems like they are going ahead. It won't help us on the frontline though, and will these non patient facing roles be with other staff who are unvaccinated?

It's a disaster. I am fully vaxxed and feel that staff should be, however, it does not sit totally right with me.

godmum56 · 07/01/2022 22:52

[quote Worried456776]@chopc

I think he is trying to say what’s the point in the boosters or vaccines because they just wear off and they won’t just continually administer boosters every 1-2 months. I agree with him I’m double vaxed and won’t be having a booster it just cannot be good for your body.[/quote]
"it just cannot be good for your body"

basis for this statement please?

chopc · 07/01/2022 22:53

@Worried456776 I can understand why people wouldn't want to continually get boosters. However I have had asymptomatic Covid and I am certain without being triple vaccinated this wouldn't have been possible. I think those getting Covid after vaccination are in a better position thanks to the vaccines