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Original poster

Sajid javid

391 replies

Worried456776 · 07/01/2022 19:53

news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224

Well done to this docter for standing up for himself.

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 09/01/2022 09:14

How is it gibberish?

He made the point that vaccine immunity wanes, that he has had covid and has antibodies and therefore doesn't agree with being made to be vaccinated in order to keep his job.

He also made the point that (according to current data) staff would have to be boosted on a monthly basis in order to account for vaccine waning and that the DoH are not going to do that so their policy on mandatory vaccination with 2 doses is not evidence based.

What bit of that is gibberish?

Alexandra2001 · 09/01/2022 09:28

Whatever our views on vaccination, it must be awful for his current patients and families having the person in charge of their care caught up in a national scandal. Patients don't have a choice and his colleagues will be left to pick-up the pieces adding to what is already a difficult time

I recently had dental treatment, the Dentist told me he was not vaccinated regularly tested and was i happy for her to continue, i couldn't give a dam, i m vaccinated and she is protected with substantial PPE.

I would imagine, his patients wont care either, they are going to be very seriously ill if they need his services, wouldn't even know who he is behind those masks.

Malibuismysecrethome · 09/01/2022 09:29

They (the unvaccinated) won’t be made to leave the NHS it’s just posturing by the Government.

containsnuts · 09/01/2022 09:34

@Alexandra2001

Whatever our views on vaccination, it must be awful for his current patients and families having the person in charge of their care caught up in a national scandal. Patients don't have a choice and his colleagues will be left to pick-up the pieces adding to what is already a difficult time

I recently had dental treatment, the Dentist told me he was not vaccinated regularly tested and was i happy for her to continue, i couldn't give a dam, i m vaccinated and she is protected with substantial PPE.

I would imagine, his patients wont care either, they are going to be very seriously ill if they need his services, wouldn't even know who he is behind those masks.

I was talking about all the media attention focused on the doctor, not his vaccintion status as such. I think it must be difficult for the family having their consultant discussed all over the news and the press waiting outside. I wouldn't like that if I had a relative in ICU but others maybe don't mind.
MarshaBradyo · 09/01/2022 09:36

Honestly I doubt you’d be focusing on it. Too worried and probably aware of the excellent care from Kings generally.

He wouldn’t be there as a consultant unless he was good / competent at his job.

TalkToTheHand123 · 09/01/2022 09:37

They've made them leave the care profession I believe, so why wouldn't they do the same to NHS staff? They are Tories after all. They don't like to be seen as weak!

containsnuts · 09/01/2022 09:42

@TalkToTheHand123

They've made them leave the care profession I believe, so why wouldn't they do the same to NHS staff? They are Tories after all. They don't like to be seen as weak!
Remember these consultants do private work too so it doesn't matter how rich you are you'll probably end up with the same doctor.
MarshaBradyo · 09/01/2022 09:48

Remember these consultants do private work too

Yes many do so they will continue I assume to do this, we’ll just be at a loss in NHS.

So short sighted it’s frustrating.

containsnuts · 09/01/2022 09:49

...meaning that there won't be enough medical staff for the rich either if they sack them. So I doubt they will.

MarshaBradyo · 09/01/2022 09:49

Why couldn’t they continue with private?

BigHuff · 09/01/2022 09:51

@thing47

Medical doctors aren't in some way uniquely qualified to assess the merits or otherwise of a vaccine purely because they have a medical degree. That would be the thousands of epidemiologists and virologists who have qualifications and experience in that field.

Among such scientists, there are virtually no dissenting voices whatsoever as to the benefits of vaccines. The one or two outliers who do get noticed are because they make a lot of noise, and really they shouldn't be afforded equivalence with the vast, vast majority of researchers in this field who are just quietly getting on with their jobs.

The idea that there are as many scientists who have doubts about vaccines as there are those in favour is total nonsense.

OK, this is patently untrue. I work in immunology, although I will not claim to have any expert knowledge of virology or vaccines. I work with plenty of immunologists and clinicians. The overriding feeling amongst my colleagues when the vaccine roll out began was "big pharma cash grab, but we'd like to travel". Boosters in response to omicron got some serious eyebrow raises. I was at the British Society for Immunology conference late last year and there was a real diversity of opinion when it came to the existing vaccines and the topic of mandatory vaccination.
MagpiePi · 09/01/2022 09:52

@Blue565

I've had two jabs and a booster. They're talking about a fourth? I've had enough now

I'll get jabbed once a year ala Flu, no more. Like this doctor said - boosted every month? Every two months?

It's lucky you're not diabetic!!
containsnuts · 09/01/2022 09:53

@MarshaBradyo

Why couldn’t they continue with private?
Can they though? Will this not become a requirement regardless of where you work such as with CRB checks? (not an expert Blush)
MarshaBradyo · 09/01/2022 09:57

Contain I’m not sure either

I think there is a link but wouldn’t know how NHS policy impacts on private

Unsure33 · 09/01/2022 10:30

The thing is all these decisions have to be made in what is still a pandemic. It is not just an everyday illness. And all other countries are suffering from having to make the same decisions whilst trying to research the virus at the same time and sharing information.

It’s all about the numbers . At the moment we know the vaccine reduces the risk of serious illness and also passing the virus on. And the NHS won’t be able to treat other patients if numbers are too high.

I am sure the worlds scientists are researching the immunity side of things but I don’t believe that will be a black and white answer either .

The only alternative I can see is the green pass system they use in Italy where if you are not fully vaccinated you have to take a saliva test every morning in your own time before you enter work . If you don’t then your job is held open but you don’t get paid.

Belladonna12 · 09/01/2022 10:44

@Thievesoil

“Wellness and detox wank”?!

This is an extraordinary statement. I actually think it’s amazing that some doctors are recognising the importance of nutrition and fitness to overall health, it’s been a long time coming!

There is actually evidence for basics like levels of vitamin D, zinc, selenium and C and others in relation to covid - and other infections. It’s NEVER mentioned

We also now know covid is much more serious for the obese. It is NEVER discussed in terms of reducing risk

That this doctors has noticed this and is on that sphere is somehow a bad thing?!

Rubbish. Whether vitamin D etc would be helpful was discussed a lot earlier on in the pandemic but good evidence that these treatments are effective is just not there. I totally disagree that there has been no mention of obesity being a risk factor for severe COVID.
Belladonna12 · 09/01/2022 10:49

@Alexandra2001

Whatever our views on vaccination, it must be awful for his current patients and families having the person in charge of their care caught up in a national scandal. Patients don't have a choice and his colleagues will be left to pick-up the pieces adding to what is already a difficult time

I recently had dental treatment, the Dentist told me he was not vaccinated regularly tested and was i happy for her to continue, i couldn't give a dam, i m vaccinated and she is protected with substantial PPE.

I would imagine, his patients wont care either, they are going to be very seriously ill if they need his services, wouldn't even know who he is behind those masks.

You are probably not vulnerable though. I am and would definitely not want to be treated by someone who is not vaccinated. The only exception would be if they were wearing the type of PPE that the staff in ICU treating covid patients are wearing.
Thievesoil · 09/01/2022 10:55

Nonsense back at you. There is lots of evidence for vitamin d status and many infections - it’s just not bloody discussed!

Belladonna12 · 09/01/2022 11:03

@Thievesoil

Nonsense back at you. There is lots of evidence for vitamin d status and many infections - it’s just not bloody discussed!
The evidence for vitamin D and infections is discussed ALOT. There isn't good quality evidence that vitamin D will prevent or treat covid.

www.cochrane.org/CD015043/HAEMATOL_vitamin-d-effective-and-safe-treatment-covid-19

thing47 · 09/01/2022 13:41

@BigHuff, the issue of mandatory vaccinations is completely different. I am not aware of many, if any at all, who are in favour of that!

There's also a question-mark over the severity of omicron and whether it actually warrants a third, or fourth, vaccination, I agree.

But in terms of risk v benefit of Covid vaccinations, I stand by my earlier post. The idea that there are hundreds of epidemiologists and virologists who are against vaccinations simply isn't true.

BigHuff · 09/01/2022 13:53

[quote thing47]@BigHuff, the issue of mandatory vaccinations is completely different. I am not aware of many, if any at all, who are in favour of that!

There's also a question-mark over the severity of omicron and whether it actually warrants a third, or fourth, vaccination, I agree.

But in terms of risk v benefit of Covid vaccinations, I stand by my earlier post. The idea that there are hundreds of epidemiologists and virologists who are against vaccinations simply isn't true.[/quote]
Alright, apologies for misinterpreting your comment.

I agree that vaccination was initially beneficial and that booster doses are somewhat beneficial for older and clinically vulnerable people.

Repeated boosters/vaccinations for the population at large (especially children) is at this point imo a total waste of resources, and the money, time and manpower devoted to delivering these would be better spent on improving NHS capacity long term (but that's probably never going to happen).

placemats · 09/01/2022 14:17

Hepatitis B is a serious disease and requires a lot of vaccines.

occupationalhealthportsmouth.nhs.uk/occupational-vaccinations/

Immunity from Covid depends entirely on the variant. My son has had Covid - delta and he still wanted to get the booster. He's 20 years old.

Covid infections can result in long term conditions in the healthy and young. At best antibodies last 10 months from infection.

There were those who opposed the Polio vaccine but that is now erased.

placemats · 09/01/2022 14:20

This is an excellent historical view of vaccines, particularly smallpox, now eradicated like polio.

www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/history-anti-vaccination-movements

thing47 · 09/01/2022 14:22

No need for apologies, I was merely clarifying my meaning, as I think you were too Flowers

The pandemic has definitely thrown the underfunding of the NHS into stark relief, hasn't it? I wonder if it will lead to any sort of meaningful change. The cynic in me fears your last sentence is probably right.

placemats · 09/01/2022 14:23

Victorian Health Reform

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/victorian-health-reform/