Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Original poster

Sajid javid

391 replies

Worried456776 · 07/01/2022 19:53

news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224

Well done to this docter for standing up for himself.

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 07/01/2022 21:06

Probably a good idea (for the sake of his patients and colleagues) if somebody directed him to this basic information.

Emerging evidence shows that getting a COVID-19 vaccine after you recover from COVID-19 infection provides added protection to your immune system. One study showed that, for people who already had COVID-19, those who do not get vaccinated after their recovery are more than 2 times as likely to get COVID-19 again than those who get fully vaccinated after their recovery.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

the80sweregreat · 07/01/2022 21:07

It's taking away people's human rights.
I decided to be pro the vaccine , but I had reservations like most people did I guess. It still comes with side effects and is a risk.
Making people have it is also wrong.

GirlInACountrySong · 07/01/2022 21:09

@EmmaH2022 ah i see!

riveted1 · 07/01/2022 21:09

@Flyonawalk

Some comments on this thread are disturbing. The doctor who spoke (in a measured way and from a position of scientific knowledge) is being discredited because posters don’t like what he said. Why jump to unpleasant conclusions about his character?

The embarrassed silence from some of the other staff when Javid spoke to them could suggest that they are also against mandatory vaccination. I know plenty of medics who believe ‘the science’ does not support blanket vaccination.

I don't think he is speaking from a position of knowledge though

The points he is making are not backed up by robust evidence, and as I said above, we'd be in a really bad situation if everyone made this choice, which he doesn't seem to acknowledge.

MarshaBradyo · 07/01/2022 21:09

It would be a mistake to sack HCP

But his message makes me worried too as he had infection so has antibodies but not everyone gets through it in the same way

Whyisitsodifficult · 07/01/2022 21:09

@Tealightsandd maybe he does trust in science and medicine but not all science and medicine are saying the same thing are they. Maybe time to stop listening to the bbc rhetoric!

riveted1 · 07/01/2022 21:10

[quote Whyisitsodifficult]@Tealightsandd maybe he does trust in science and medicine but not all science and medicine are saying the same thing are they. Maybe time to stop listening to the bbc rhetoric![/quote]
It really isn't just the BBC who recommend vaccination for adults though..

blue12345 · 07/01/2022 21:10

Would love if any fellow medics on this thread would care to explain why they think he feels this way? Surely he understands the science and obviously has experience with Covid if he has worked on a Covid ward for the past 2 years.

Flapjacker48 · 07/01/2022 21:12

He better be ready to hit the job centre.

Tealightsandd · 07/01/2022 21:15

It would be a mistake to sack HCP

Well if you want to see hospitals sued for failing in their duty of care to their patients.

Vaccines don't eliminate all risk but they do reduce it.

As well as the legal action from relatives of those put at unnecessary additional risk, if someone doesn't trust medicine and science enough to have the vaccine, then they shouldn't be working in a science and medicine based environment.

Clearly they're in the wrong job.

MarshaBradyo · 07/01/2022 21:16

@Tealightsandd

It would be a mistake to sack HCP

Well if you want to see hospitals sued for failing in their duty of care to their patients.

Vaccines don't eliminate all risk but they do reduce it.

As well as the legal action from relatives of those put at unnecessary additional risk, if someone doesn't trust medicine and science enough to have the vaccine, then they shouldn't be working in a science and medicine based environment.

Clearly they're in the wrong job.

Still a big mistake

And I’m not for the message in general.

Tealightsandd · 07/01/2022 21:18

[quote Whyisitsodifficult]@Tealightsandd maybe he does trust in science and medicine but not all science and medicine are saying the same thing are they. Maybe time to stop listening to the bbc rhetoric![/quote]
Not the BBC. The vast majority of scientists and doctors around the world.

MaxNormal · 07/01/2022 21:19

I find it interesting how those that strongly disagree with what the doctor was saying are casting unfounded aspersions on his character.

riveted1 · 07/01/2022 21:20

@MaxNormal

I find it interesting how those that strongly disagree with what the doctor was saying are casting unfounded aspersions on his character.
I haven't :)
riveted1 · 07/01/2022 21:21

(and I strongly disagree)

Flyonawalk · 07/01/2022 21:24

There is no money to be made from naturally-acquired immunity. There is clearly a great deal of money to be made from repeated vaccinations. Presumably that is informing some people’s thinking.

Tealightsandd · 07/01/2022 21:24

@the80sweregreat

It's taking away people's human rights. I decided to be pro the vaccine , but I had reservations like most people did I guess. It still comes with side effects and is a risk. Making people have it is also wrong.
He is free to find more appropriate non science and medicine based employment.

His vulnerable patients on the other hand. They have the human right to expect safe care. All risk cannot be eliminated but it can be reduced.

The precedent for new safety regulations coming in after someone is in the job was set years ago. Plumbers who aren't gas safe (previously Corgi) registered were no longer allowed to work with boilers, caterers had to comply with new food safety rules or seek alternative employment, etc.

In a society rights come with responsibilities. Like Rafa Nadal says re Djokovic. He is free to make his choices but every choice has consequences.

MaxNormal · 07/01/2022 21:24

@riveted1 sorry, let me rephrase that as some of those then. I shouldn't generalise.

Ontheblink · 07/01/2022 21:25

He has a extremely valid point which has been ignored by the government for quite some time now, they refuse to acknowledge the natural immunity gained from infection. Given the choice between this doctor and that politician I know who I would rather listen to.

riveted1 · 07/01/2022 21:27

@Flyonawalk

There is no money to be made from naturally-acquired immunity. There is clearly a great deal of money to be made from repeated vaccinations. Presumably that is informing some people’s thinking.
There is when you think of all the eye wateringly expensive treatments there are for acute & long COVID.

Besides which, it's a moot point seeing as "big pharma" has always been out to make money, but in this case it has been explicitly proven a) why the vaccines were designed the way they were, b) why immunity will wane, and c) why it is necessary for the general population to be vaccinated and boosted (although this doctor hasn't even had one) in the current context

riveted1 · 07/01/2022 21:28

@Ontheblink

He has a extremely valid point which has been ignored by the government for quite some time now, they refuse to acknowledge the natural immunity gained from infection. Given the choice between this doctor and that politician I know who I would rather listen to.
what about all the other doctors, the vast majority in fact, who recommend vaccination after infection?

why aren't you listening to them?

By all means ignore the politicians.

Walking4You · 07/01/2022 21:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

vodkaredbullgirl · 07/01/2022 21:33
Hmm
EmmaH2022 · 07/01/2022 21:37

@blue12345

Would love if any fellow medics on this thread would care to explain why they think he feels this way? Surely he understands the science and obviously has experience with Covid if he has worked on a Covid ward for the past 2 years.
And he's had covid as well.

I am not a medic.

Have had a couple of fraught situations with parents under MDTs and clear disagreements. Before my father died, two oncologists were of a completely different opinion on how he should be treated, with one considering the path suggested by the other to be dangerous.

It's science, there's always going to be disagreement.

I am full vaccinated and I'd like to keep doctors and nurses regardless of their vaccination status. They worked their butts off the last couple of years, they looked after patients when there was no vaccine available. I think we should value them.

riveted1 · 07/01/2022 21:38

I think posts like that from @Walking4You are why many people decide to avoid threads like this for their own sanity.

They just draw in my most ridiculous nonsense.

Yes the coronavirus vaccines are vaccines, yes there are many others that aim to reduce disease severity rather than prevent infection, and yes there are many diseases for which we vaccination the population that has not been eradicted ("removed" not being the term you were looking for... )