Sajid javid

[Worried456776]

news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224

Well done to this docter for standing up for himself.

There is no money to be made from naturally-acquired immunity. There is clearly a great deal of money to be made from repeated vaccinations. Presumably that is informing some people’s thinking

Indeed

@chopc People who are unvaccinated can also have asymptomatic Covid. Also they can have abortive infections which is better than anything vaccines can provide at present. 1 in 10 of the medical personal in the study had abortive infection possibly because of previous repeated infection from other corona viruses.

Grandfil is an immunologist, was for compulsory vaccines for the whole population pre omicron. Now thinks it’s pointless as vaccines don’t offer enough protection from variants so it’s not worth the upheaval for society and the health service. I agree, the vaccines don’t stop people being infected or transmitting the virus, as we’ve seen this Christmas.
People asking for this doctor to be sacked might be changing their tune when their operation has been cancelled and the NHS is effected by staff shortages that make the pingdemic look like a busy day on the ward.

I believe it shouldn’t be mandatory to be vaccinated if you already have covid antibodies. No other jobs rely on such mandates. But I feel a bit upset that there has been such a push to be vaccinated from all and sundry and I’ve now had three and there are still concerns everywhere about getting this thing. Have we been lied to? I just don’t really understand in all honesty. Why is that doctor so against them? That worries me.

Drs and experts do not always agree. Look what's happening in Canada one group stating it is an unidentified neurological disease, needs further investigation and the other say misdiagnosis, nothing to see. Who's right?

Can I ask where you got thsi information from? The fact that an anaesthesiologist said it does not make it true.....Its like a plumber making statements about electricity.

You have to go to medical school and it takes at least 7 years to train as an anaesthesiologist so I'm sure he's more than qualified to make up his own mind on this. Maybe you should consider training up yourself so you can take his place on the front line as you obviously know so much about medicine?

Mumsnet is turning into Vaccinet, no place for critical thinking, only boosters, boosters and more boosters.

Ot isn't rare at all. I am in a group of nhs ans private doctors and nurses who won't have it and are taking legal action.

Omg the electrician comment . You do know how you get to be a anesnteiologist don’t you?? It’s not a three month NVQ where you discard every other facet of medicine. It’s an incredibly competitive and technical speciality that you specialise after seven years training. Mumsnet classic.

I can't see the mandate going through personally. I think they will see how many are coerced into going ahead in February and if the numbers are low there is no way they will get rid of so many critical workers. By that point loads of people who didn't really want it will have had it.

Even the House of Lords didn't agree with it, quote:

"DHSC’s figures anticipate that, of the 208,000 currently unvaccinated workers in the sector, this legislation will result in 54,000 (26%) additional staff being vaccinated and 126,000 (61%) losing their jobs as a result of not complying with the requirement of being vaccinated: this seems a disproportionately small gain for legislation that is anticipated to cause £270 million in additional costs and major disruption to the health and care provision at the end of the grace period. The House may expect to be provided with some very strong evidence to support this policy choice, and DHSC has signally failed to do so."

committees.parliament.uk/publications/7989/documents/82445/default/

Have we been lied to? I just don’t really understand in all honesty.

By Boris? Definitely. All that hung ho great British jabs, we’ve vaxced our way out of the pandemic bullshit from last summer was always going to end up with the public thinking they’d been lied to and losing trust. If he’d been a bit more ‘we’ve done well and that’s good, but it’s not over yet’ and a bit less ‘one way road map, we beat everyone else at getting people vaxxed.’ It might have been different.

@boogiebogie

Ot isn't rare at all. I am in a group of nhs ans private doctors and nurses who won't have it and are taking legal action.

Good luck to all of you and thank you for everything you've done.

@InCahootswithOrwell

"I think he might be the prick. I’m getting strong vibes. Not least because I’m pretty sure his scientific argument is wrong particularly the bit about how his antibody protection from getting delta is better than somebody who is jabbed, or it would be if he was jabbed. And I don’t really follow his argument that people will need boosting every month."

++++

Firstly during the video clip the Doctor did not any point state that his antibody protection is better than vaccination- only "equivalent ".

Secondly his argument on monthly vaccination is that because the benefit of the booster wains after 8 weeks then assuming you get a booster on the 1st Jan the benefit has waned by 31st March. The earliest you could get another booster would be the 4 weeks after either infection or a booster - ie 1st Feb - or a booster every month.

Of course you can dispute his statement that the benefit of a booster wanes after two months. But if you do agree it wanes after two months then his logic stands.

Lastly as for this doctor being "a prick", I understand his viewpoint is different to mine and yours but that doesn't make him a "prick". I usually find that people who through insults in a difference of opinion do so because they are unable and do not have the intellectual capabilities to form a coherent counter argument .

@Tealightsandd

And when it's a HCP working with some highly vulnerable patients it is not only foolish, it is also negligent.

Agreed.

This why people lose trust :
This morning: news.sky.com/story/covid-19-fourth-booster-shot-could-be-needed-by-autumn-moderna-boss-says-12510657

Now this evening being told we don't need the 4th booster (the cynic in me thinks this is to stop people being hesitant about the 3rd booster) www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59915560

@InCahootswithOrwell

Have we been lied to? I just don’t really understand in all honesty.

By Boris? Definitely. All that hung ho great British jabs, we’ve vaxced our way out of the pandemic bullshit from last summer was always going to end up with the public thinking they’d been lied to and losing trust. If he’d been a bit more ‘we’ve done well and that’s good, but it’s not over yet’ and a bit less ‘one way road map, we beat everyone else at getting people vaxxed.’ It might have been different.

Omicron and any new variant that diverges from original Covid changes vaccine situation doesn’t it?

The vaccines are good and you can see impact they’ve had with better outcomes but mutations have happened to create where we are now

"There is no money to be made from naturally-acquired immunity. There is clearly a great deal of money to be made from repeated vaccinations. Presumably that is informing some people’s thinking"

I agree with this comment 100 percent.

@nojudgementhere

Can I ask where you got thsi information from? The fact that an anaesthesiologist said it does not make it true.....Its like a plumber making statements about electricity.

You have to go to medical school and it takes at least 7 years to train as an anaesthesiologist so I'm sure he's more than qualified to make up his own mind on this. Maybe you should consider training up yourself so you can take his place on the front line as you obviously know so much about medicine?

I have worked in the NHS in rehabilitation at a senior level and have had colleagues in many disciplines and specialisms. I know enough about training and specialisation to know that people can be very knowledgeable indeed about their own specialism and know no more than an educated member of the public about something that is unrelated. The sensible honest and principled ones admit this.

I’d love to know more about natural immunity. I had covid quite early on, have been surrounded but close contacts numerous times and not caught it since. I am unvaxxed and c18 months since having had it myself.

Of course I could be lucky but really quite interesting to know if we will ever know anything more about this.

@chopc

Eh? So you have to catch Covid to get antibodies instead of vaccination? And you have to keep on catching it so you maintain antibodies?

Yep that's right- exactly the same procedure as for RSV, strep throat, colds and flu that we've always followed.

The flu jab evolved out of research from the 1968 Hong Kong flu pandemic and reduces the risk of hospitalisation or death in the old, young and vulnerable.

@Ontheblink

Mumsnet is turning into Vaccinet, no place for critical thinking, only boosters, boosters and more boosters.

But disagreeing with the majority opinion of scientific experts in a field isn’t critical thinking though. There are some things that are up for debate and some things that aren’t. ‘Is getting a booster the best form of protection we have at the moment?’ is fairly non controversial except for the small group of people that always exists in any debate about vaccines or climate science.

Something like ‘should we insist that all frontline NHS staff are jabbed?’ is different. Much more room for debate there.

Omicron and any new variant that diverges from original Covid changes vaccine situation doesn’t it?

Yes. Which is what I think Boris could have been a bit more honest about. This was something that was always likely to happen at some point.

@InCahootswithOrwell

". There are some things that are up for debate and some things that aren’t. "

++++

It's scary how in two years we have changed so much as a society to see such statements.

Your username is rather appropriate.

"Ignorance is strength"

There are people out there who have got covid and been fine. People out there who’ve got covid and not even noticed.
So why do they need a vaccine?