Do you still agree with mandatory vaccines for NHS?

[woollymammoths]

Not doing this to goad and completely respectful of people’s choices. But genuinely interested in opinions and any research that people are aware of.

At this point in time I am struggling to think of family and friends that do not have covid right now. Some are triple vaccinated, some are unvaccinated. There does not seem to be any distinct differences between how easily it was transmitted or how ill the individuals are - according to their vaccination status.

Example:
My DP is triple jabbed - he has had covid twice (once after 2 jabs, the second time after booster). More ill the second time, but still mild.

His (NHS) department is currently shut down with the amount of (triple jabbed) staff off sick with covid.

I caught covid from him.

I am unvaccinated - have had covid twice. Been unpleasant but not hospitalised. The second time milder than the first.

I am on mat leave but due to return to my NHS role.

Why am I still being forced to be vaccinated?

please do not say ‘just find another job’. That is not the point of my thread

I think people who say I am not something is usually something

I never agreed with it in the first place.

@QueenOfHiraeth

Almost, if not all, major steps forward in extending life and health are down to public health interventions, like vaccination, clean water supply, stopping smoking, etc

Public health is a very hard nosed discipline, looking at huge numbers and disregarding individuals. Does public health care if your DH caught Covid when triple jabbed? No, as long as numbers overall are reduced. Does public heath care if someone is unwell after vaccination? No as long as that is well outweighed by health and lives saved.

The science tells us that vaccination reduces infection and illness so anecdata on a small scale is irrelevant

Ok... but I am not disputing the public health benefits of mass vaccination am I? The question was whether NHS employees should be made to have it, given what we are seeing presently. Given the CDC has reported that Omicron is transmissible with it without vaccination (which is what my ‘anecdata’ seems to reflect).

With or without*

@WonderfulYou

I know if I was newly diagnosed with cancer and my choice was no treatment or treatment via and unvaccinated HCP, what my choice would be.

I am pretty certain that if you had cancer you would not want to be around someone who hasn’t had their vaccinations.
You would be classed as CEV and we know that covid would easily cause you serious illness or death.

We also know the consequences of delaying cancer treatment….

As unfortunately many people are experiencing right now (either due to delay in being diagnosed or because there isn’t enough cancer nurse to give the treatment to them)

Forgive me for not agreeing that government policy should be based on your sample size of two.

Yes. I actually think we should make life difficult for the unvaccinated by choice- stop them going into pubs, restaurants, cinemas, theatres, all fun places. Carrot and a stick approach.

So, as a HCP, why do you think the CMO is urging people to have vaccines and boosters?

Do you understand why he is doing that?

Have you listened to the Press Conferences with him or JVT in? Because they explain things pretty well.

JVT did some Royal Institution lectures this year which aim to explain the thinking behind the vaccines as clearly as possible,.

Here www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0012tz5

This impacts me and my colleagues, I work for the NHS.

100% behind the policy of compulsory vaccination as are all my colleagues I've spoken to about this.

FYI, this is what the CDC says about Omicron and vaccination. They currently still recommend vaccination until further data is available. They have not said vaccinated people get Omicron just as easily as the unvaxxed. If anything, they emphasise vaccination.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/omicron-variant.ht

"Given the CDC has reported that Omicron is transmissible with it without vaccination (which is what my ‘anecdata’ seems to reflect)."

It's not an all or nothing issue.. Vaccination reduces but does not stop transmission. With Omicron the vaccines only seem to reduce the tranmission slightly. Even that is justification for mandatory vaccination IMHO. Patients come first.

@GiftWrappingLikeItsXmasEve

Yes absolutely for vaccination of health and social care workers. Have to wonder about their judgment and whether they really have any grip on statistics or risk at all.

You wonder about my judgement and whether I have any grip on

Statistics? Omicron is largely evading the vaccinated

Risk? I have had covid twice, and survived

In turn I wonder about whether you would be saying this is you were a HCP that strongly advocates for bodily autonomy and uses evidence-based practice every day?
Their judgment is fine.

Care homes have to.

Mandatory vacs Full stop For all

The vaccines were developed for a prior variant and don’t appear to be effective for the variant currently circulating whilst the booster is waning in 10 weeks. There needs to be a consensus on what benefit the vaccine will have now for those entirely unvaccinated.

Yes I do.

@DayKay

The vaccines were developed for a prior variant and don’t appear to be effective for the variant currently circulating whilst the booster is waning in 10 weeks. There needs to be a consensus on what benefit the vaccine will have now for those entirely unvaccinated.

Exactly this. You have put it way more succinctly than I have

Social care sector have to be vaccinated, why are the NHS different?

There needs to be a consensus on what benefit the vaccine will have now for those entirely unvaccinated

There is - it will reduce their chances of moderate or severe disease by well over 80% (levels increasing as they progress through the shots - which is quicker now than at first roll,out (4 weeks off first interval, 3 months off the second).

It will also reduce (though not eliminate) the chances of the passing it on - by about 13 percentage points against earlier variants (as SAR is higher with omicron, the rate will be higher, but the gap is quite likely to be similar)

Never agreed with it to begin with. People forget its not safe for everyone and when it goes wrong where are those people then?

No, the fact this is even a discussion is disturbing. The 'vaccine' is new technology, there are absolutely no long term safety studies. The pharmaceutical companies are exempt from liability and gaining billions of dollars. Sorry if I don't trust them with my body! I'm a mother of very young children and have recovered from covid. It was fine. I wouldn't potentially sacrifice my children losing their mother to this trial 'vaccine'. No one in this day and age should be forced to have any kind of procedure, look up the Nuremberg code introduced post Nazis. Outrageous this is even being considered. Also it's not being passed as a law - they are still trying to threaten workers but it won't be passed. If you want to do your own through research there are plenty of professionals; both scientists and law firms distributing information on Telegram.

New technology.
Nazis.
Nuremberg
Bad pharma
Do your own research.

Bingo!

@UnmentionedElephantDildo that was relevant for alpha and delta variant. Omicron is milder and evades the vaccines.

I'm not prepared to inject my body with an unknown substance from a manufacturer who can't be held responsible for any dire consequences. I mean, who would do this? I've never had a flu vaccine, never had the flu.
If you need to maintain social distancing and wear a mask for protection, why is it necessary to stick a probe so far up your nose to see if you are positive? If this virus is so dangerous and contagious why do I see discarded masks on the ground, surely, they are spreading infection?

Bingo exactly