Do you still agree with mandatory vaccines for NHS?

[woollymammoths]

Not doing this to goad and completely respectful of people’s choices. But genuinely interested in opinions and any research that people are aware of.

At this point in time I am struggling to think of family and friends that do not have covid right now. Some are triple vaccinated, some are unvaccinated. There does not seem to be any distinct differences between how easily it was transmitted or how ill the individuals are - according to their vaccination status.

Example:
My DP is triple jabbed - he has had covid twice (once after 2 jabs, the second time after booster). More ill the second time, but still mild.

His (NHS) department is currently shut down with the amount of (triple jabbed) staff off sick with covid.

I caught covid from him.

I am unvaccinated - have had covid twice. Been unpleasant but not hospitalised. The second time milder than the first.

I am on mat leave but due to return to my NHS role.

Why am I still being forced to be vaccinated?

please do not say ‘just find another job’. That is not the point of my thread

@ChiefInspectorParker

I think it should be mandated for NHS staff but of course there should be exemptions for those who can’t have it for medical reasons.

It should be reviewed according to data, so no mandate now should be for every vaccine and booster for ever and ever, amen - and hopefully in future COVID will be more like flu, with some people vaccinated annually and others not, and no need for mandatory vaccinations.

I do not feel comfortable with HCPs who don’t believe in vaccination or think vaccination doesn’t make a difference. I think they put others at risk and I think their scientific understanding and judgment is poor. All other things being equal, I would not want to be treated by them. I also think it potentially puts patients in a difficult position if they do not know whether staff have been vaccinated. So all in all yes, I think vaccination should be mandatory for NHS staff.

I agree with this post. I do feel for people who are financially impacted by their decision not to get vaccinated but I think where the NHS is concerned it's the right thing to do at the end of the day.

Agree with most of that privatehall although surely if your point is vaccination isn’t having much of an effect on transmission you can’t also say people who aren’t vaccinated are causing a disproportionate disruption to the service? Or do you mean they are more likely to have to isolate because of the difference in rules around isolation for contacts based on vax status?

Yes, most of my family work for the NHS and we are all triple vaccinated.

I 100% agree with compulsory vaccines

@Suffolkcatlady

I don't agree with mandatory vaccines. I am triple jabbed here so not an anti vaxxer but they are new vaccines and we are still learning all the time about both the vaccines and covid. Omicron looks like it's going to infect many of us - already about one in fifteen have had it - the numbers are huge. It appears to evade vaccine immunity - plus people who catch it may get natural immunity. I believe people should choose what they want to put into their body. If people get natural immunity via infection with omicron - surely that should be considered as good as having a vaccine? I'm not claiming to know anywhere near enough about this - but when I do read the science it seems we are still learning and things are changing all the time esp with omicron. It's only been with us for just over a month. So perhaps mandatory vaccines are a knee jerk reaction to an ever changing situation

I agree with this.

Also I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but can we really trust all the scientists? Many of them will be getting paid to say exactly what whoever wants them to say, when there is lots of cash involved then I rarely trust it, and seemingly this time last year infection rates were high yet it didn’t stop the MPs partying!

Also when the media reports than so many had a positive lateral flow, then how on earth do they know how many had a positive, I’ve taken many and never reported back to anyone so I don’t believe their figures. I still say it’s being exaggerated to make the non vaxxed get vaxxed.

I don't believe the CMOs are saying what they are paid to say.

Vallance is a millionaire in his own right for one thing, and Whitty and JVT carefully but clearly convey their scientific understanding pretty well.

Sorry, read 10 ish, cut to the end.

No, I'm opposed to mandatory vaccination. Sounds brilliant in principle; but in reality, people are people with their own 'agency'. Persuasion/financial incentive/ whatever, but mandatory? No. And, thin end of a wedge, given that we have a government who cannot be trusted.

One of the big crises in the NHS is the inability to discharge people who should be going into, or returning to care homes, now 'bed blocking' in hospital. Why? Because of the sheer number of care home workers sacked for not getting vaccinated. The care homes no longer have capacity.

So, you can't get your hip replaced- or your possible cancer investigated- because the hospitals are full; and shortly, because HCP staff who have refused to be vaxxed are downgraded or sacked.

Be careful what you wish for.

FTR I'm HCP and fully vaxxed, but I didn't do it for 'the general public' (most of whom, on first encounter in my job, walk in and pull off the mask the receptionist has made them wear, with a 'Thank fuck I can take this off!' - as they enter my office)... 🤔

@CocoCarrie

As much as the vaccine should be a personal choice I somehow would not feel comfortable being treated by someone who has not been vaccinated. Considering what the NHS front-line workers have had to deal with (I can't image) I don't know why they would say no as they are working with with science, why would they not trust this vaccine ??

But if the alternative was 'no treatment at all', 'uncomfortable' or not, what might you say?

Health care systems around the world have struggled for decades to persuade most staff to get flu vaccine. Either you think HCWs everywhere are mostly ignorant & selfish to ever be vaccine hesitant, or accept they are like rest of us, and deserve some autonomy, I guess.

@RosesAndHellebores

If NHS staff were allowed to reserve the right not to be vaccinated, I reserve my right not to be treated by them. Further if an HCP can't assess probability and see the argument for vaccination, I question their competency in a role that requires dealing with complex information and a high degree of accuracy.

At the end of the day, your choice to 'not be treated' is as stupid as you think their right to not be vaccinated is, no?

I know if I was newly diagnosed with cancer and my choice was no treatment or treatment via and unvaccinated HCP, what my choice would be.

As would yours, if we where talking reality, not rhetoric.

Actually @Fordian as I am insured and am very wealthy, I do have the choice and would exercise it. The NHS and some of its standards operate on the basis that the masses will put up and shut up because they don't have choices.

No I don’t agree.

Their body, their choice.
Everyone i know who is unvaccinated has had covid less often and less severely than those who have had their multiple vaccines.

I would not even think to ask if the member of the NHS treating me or a member of my family was vaccinated. I would be grateful for their medical knowledge.

Perhaps they have treated or known someone with a vaccine injury? Two members of my family have been affected negatively by the vaccine and there are many more. Perhaps they feel the risks of the vaccine out weigh the risk of covid to them.

The NHS has been on its knees for years before covid was even an issue.

Almost, if not all, major steps forward in extending life and health are down to public health interventions, like vaccination, clean water supply, stopping smoking, etc

Public health is a very hard nosed discipline, looking at huge numbers and disregarding individuals. Does public health care if your DH caught Covid when triple jabbed? No, as long as numbers overall are reduced. Does public heath care if someone is unwell after vaccination? No as long as that is well outweighed by health and lives saved.

The science tells us that vaccination reduces infection and illness so anecdata on a small scale is irrelevant

@RosesAndHellebores

Actually *@Fordian* as I am insured and am very wealthy, I do have the choice and would exercise it. The NHS and some of its standards operate on the basis that the masses will put up and shut up because they don't have choices.

Ah, I've just remembered you from other threads. As you were, love, as you were 😂😂😂

I'm actually heartened by the number of intelligent responses from people who aren't comfortable with mandatory vaccination.

Some posters on here may have reinforced that view via their patronising attitude, maybe?

You mean the ones accusing scientists worldwide of being paid? I would rather be patronising than paranoid.

Yes absolutely for vaccination of health and social care workers.
Have to wonder about their judgment and whether they really have any grip on statistics or risk at all.

I chose to be vaccinated as soon as I could as I teach children with SEND and I knew the physical and/or mental implications of them or a family member getting covid would be massive.
If I refused to get the vaccination then I shouldn’t work there as I would obviously be in the wrong job.

I feel the same about people working in the NHS or care homes.
If you don’t want to help a person stay healthy or have a good quality of life - then why are you in that job.

I don’t like the idea of being forced to do anything though.

So a better approach would maybe be if there was something you could sign to ask not to be treated by someone who hasn’t had their vaccinations, although I’m not sure how this would work in practice.

The vaccinations reduce the spread, the severity of the diseases, risk of long term illness and builds up herd immunity.

Most people want to get back to normality now and although it will probably never go away fully, I see herd immunity as the best way forward for normality.

Ah @Fordian, you presumably are a nurse to use the epithet love, rather than a name. Disrespect rules I see!

I would not even think to ask if the member of the NHS treating me or a member of my family was vaccinated. I would be grateful for their medical knowledge.

Would you not question their medical knowledge?

It doesn’t take much common sense to work out that that vaccinations are helpful, so to not have that common sense would worry me more than the exposure risk of covid.
What else do they not do.

Absolutely @WonderfulYou

Yes

Yes

No I wouldn’t question their medical knowledge because they chose not to get a vaccine for a virus with a 98%+ survival rate that’s still in its trial phase.
I’d appreciate that they had the strength to stand by their decision and not be coerced into making a decision about their own body.

Also I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but can we really trust all the scientists?

@ScottishAngryBird who else would you trust?

Surely you would take the opinions of people who know what they’re talking about as it’s what they’re qualified and experienced in, over someone who doesn’t have a clue.

You say you’ve never reported your tests, which you won’t be the only one - so that means there are probably hundreds or thousands more cases that aren’t being reported so the figures are a lot lower than they actually should be.

I know if I was newly diagnosed with cancer and my choice was no treatment or treatment via and unvaccinated HCP, what my choice would be.

I am pretty certain that if you had cancer you would not want to be around someone who hasn’t had their vaccinations.
You would be classed as CEV and we know that covid would easily cause you serious illness or death.