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Original poster

Do you still agree with mandatory vaccines for NHS?

414 replies

woollymammoths · 05/01/2022 17:13

Not doing this to goad and completely respectful of people’s choices. But genuinely interested in opinions and any research that people are aware of.

At this point in time I am struggling to think of family and friends that do not have covid right now. Some are triple vaccinated, some are unvaccinated. There does not seem to be any distinct differences between how easily it was transmitted or how ill the individuals are - according to their vaccination status.

Example:
My DP is triple jabbed - he has had covid twice (once after 2 jabs, the second time after booster). More ill the second time, but still mild.

His (NHS) department is currently shut down with the amount of (triple jabbed) staff off sick with covid.

I caught covid from him.

I am unvaccinated - have had covid twice. Been unpleasant but not hospitalised. The second time milder than the first.

I am on mat leave but due to return to my NHS role.

Why am I still being forced to be vaccinated?

please do not say ‘just find another job’. That is not the point of my thread

OP posts:
ScottishAngryBird · 05/01/2022 18:07

@hohohooooo

Yes, if I or my loved ones are in hospital, I wouldn't want any extra risk from unvaccinated staff.

OP, you have loads of anecdotes but as you know the scientists and doctors have looked
At the full set of evidence and it is clear cut - vaccinated people are less likely to catch the virus or spread it.

Most of the people I know of late are all vaccinated and yet have Covid, I don’t know many unvaccinated just now that have Covid, I’m unvaccinated and it’s been nearly 3 years since the start of Covid and I’ve not had it yet and it’s getting better in terms of less deaths etc.
AlexaShutUp · 05/01/2022 18:09

Most of the people I know of late are all vaccinated and yet have Covid, I don’t know many unvaccinated just now that have Covid, I’m unvaccinated and it’s been nearly 3 years since the start of Covid and I’ve not had it yet and it’s getting better in terms of less deaths etc.

One of the primary reasons why there are fewer deaths is precisely because most people are vaccinated! Your risk will be a little lower than it was due to improvements in treatment etc, but still much higher than it would be if you were vaccinated!

Buzzinwithbez · 05/01/2022 18:19

No I do not and I'll do whatever I can to help and support those that are campaigning to keep their jobs.

SomePosters · 05/01/2022 18:20

Wouldn’t trust an unvaccinated medical professional unless medically exempt, then I wouldn’t expect them to be working patient facing

autismandgin · 05/01/2022 18:21

Yes

BertieQueen · 05/01/2022 18:21

No I do not think making the vaccine mandatory for Nhs staff is the right thing to do.

If I need to be seen for medical treatment I couldn’t care less if the person is vaccinated as long as they are medically trained that’s good enough for me.

A few people may feel more happy being treated by someone vaccinated but I highly doubt they would turn down medical treatment if needed just because the nurse/doctor wasn’t vaccinated.

Gechik · 05/01/2022 18:22

No I don't agree with it

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 05/01/2022 18:23

Everyone in my department who refused to be vaccinated have decided they will have them, because they are all on decent salaries. Looks like money won over conscience. No surprise there.

Flyonawalk · 05/01/2022 18:24

Mandating vaccines is illogical and unkind.

Prior to 2020 most people didn’t question whether clinicians had had a flu jab, although flu is a bigger killer of under 65s than covid.

The ‘precedent’ argument is bogus, surely. Vaccination against hepatitis A is recommended (not mandated as far as I know) for surgeons, for their own protection.

NHS staff must wonder how it has come to this. Spring 2020 the country applauded them every week, and now their medical freedom is taken away and few defend them.

ChiefInspectorParker · 05/01/2022 18:28

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

IrrelevantNameChange · 05/01/2022 18:29

I would have liked to have seen a proper assessment, reported in public health style format, of the cost/benefit of the intervention.

  1. how many staff will leave the NHS?
  2. How many staff will decide to have the vaccine?
  3. How many covid deaths/icu admissions will no.2 prevent
  4. The clinical implications of no.1
  5. the financial cost of replacing the staff who leave
  6. a weighing up of all the above

It’s impossible to know whether it’s a good intervention as the government haven’t done an impact assessment (as the Lord’s highly critical report into the plans notes).

Walking4You · 05/01/2022 18:30

The way I see it, the issue with the current vaccine is that it’s crap.

Yes it reduces hospitalisation, deaths etc… but only for a very short period (let’s say compare that to the MMR - last shot when The child is 2yo protects them well until adulthood. O even the flu where we have yearly shit because if mutations rather than lack of effectiveness).
It hasn’t been developed for omicron so there is a higher level of escape.

I was never really pro vaccine for HCW (I think it should be a choice/strongly encouraged etc…).
With the situation like it is, I think imposing a vaccine when you know it will only be good for a few months is HmmConfused
If we had a vaccine that actually lasts a year and can be adapted to new variants like we do for the flu, then it would make sense iyswim

Tbf there is no way we can carry in vaccinating people every 3 months anyway so I suspect it will peter out.

Original poster
woollymammoths · 05/01/2022 18:30

@rwalker

There's been mandatory vaccines in the NHS for years.

I don't get the relevance of the (triple jabbed)about your DH department shut.
Of course there off if they test positive nothing to do with jab .

Jab don't stop you getting it reduce symptom and there doesn't eliminate transmission but reduces it .

Do you ever question any of the drugs you give to your patients

I don't get the relevance of the (triple jabbed)about your DH department shut. Of course there off if they test positive nothing to do with jab

The relevance being triple jabbed has done nothing to stop it spreading amongst a department and shutting it down.

Do you ever question any of the drugs you give to your patients

Yes or I wouldn’t be doing my job properly

OP posts:
Walking4You · 05/01/2022 18:31

@IrrelevantNameChange, I agree with you there too.

The impact of people leaving (whether it’s the NHS or with carers) has been and is huge. We didn’t need that just now….

OvaHere · 05/01/2022 18:33

I don't think it should be mandated nor should someone lose their job. If they are patient facing I would expect them to be masked/use PPE and test regularly though.

I can respect the personal choice not to have vaccine (but I do wish almost everyone would) the line for me would be people in healthcare who are anti PPE and mitigation measures on top of not wanting to be vaccinated. As far as I can tell though this group seems to exist mostly in America.

IrrelevantNameChange · 05/01/2022 18:33

Evidence is insufficient to back mandatory NHS staff vaccination, says House of Lords committee

www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2957

Wheresmywoolyjumpers · 05/01/2022 18:34

If you are vaccinated you are less likely to be seriously ill if you get the virus.

itsjustnotok · 05/01/2022 18:36

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I know of 2 colleagues out of a department of over 100 who are not happy to be vaccinated. It’s not necessarily about being an anti-Vaxxer, for them they are really worried about fertility and just aren’t happy to put themselves in a situation they seem to feel at risk. They aren’t happy with the data. So do we force them? I’m not sure that it’s ok to do that. No one would think twice if it was poor Joe Public. I do think the healthcare sector have very much been held to ransom this last few year. If you care you’ll work like a dog and leave your family at home while you live elsewhere. If you care you’ll cover your shifts. If you care you’ll cancel your annual leave with very little prospect of getting it back. If you care don’t ask someone to wear a mask and accept the daily abuse and if you care you’ll just take a vaccine because everyone else is.

Blubells · 05/01/2022 18:36

Unfortunately the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission. So even vaccinated doctors and nurses can catch and transmit the virus....

MrsGaskthrill · 05/01/2022 18:40

I agree with you OP this makes no sense at all. No medication that carries a risk however small should ever be mandatory. Especially not in this case where clearly it’s not stopping transmission.

Nonnymum · 05/01/2022 18:44

Yes I do support it. You can still get COVID if triple jabbed but it's less likely and so less likely to pass it on.
Everyone working with vulnerable people should be vaccinated.

DontWantTheRivalry · 05/01/2022 18:46

I work for the NHS and don’t agree with mandated vaccines for staff.

Suffolkcatlady · 05/01/2022 18:48

I don't agree with mandatory vaccines. I am triple jabbed here so not an anti vaxxer but they are new vaccines and we are still learning all the time about both the vaccines and covid. Omicron looks like it's going to infect many of us - already about one in fifteen have had it - the numbers are huge. It appears to evade vaccine immunity - plus people who catch it may get natural immunity. I believe people should choose what they want to put into their body. If people get natural immunity via infection with omicron - surely that should be considered as good as having a vaccine? I'm not claiming to know anywhere near enough about this - but when I do read the science it seems we are still learning and things are changing all the time esp with omicron. It's only been with us for just over a month. So perhaps mandatory vaccines are a knee jerk reaction to an ever changing situation

PrivateHall · 05/01/2022 18:56

@RosesAndHellebores

If NHS staff were allowed to reserve the right not to be vaccinated, I reserve my right not to be treated by them. Further if an HCP can't assess probability and see the argument for vaccination, I question their competency in a role that requires dealing with complex information and a high degree of accuracy.
I wish I could reserve the right to not have to treat someone as pompous and condescending as you. Good luck picking and choosing who treats you, in this current climate. I suspect that should you require the care of an HCP, suddenly you will be less bothered who treats you and just happy that someone treats you. Because this ludicrous mandate is going to reduce staffing even more, we are already on our knees.
PrivateHall · 05/01/2022 19:02

To get back to the op, I strongly object to mandatory vaccination. I am fully vaccinated and happy to be so, but mandatory vaccination would need to be evidence based. The evidence does not support doing so as vaccination is having little impact on transmission rates. My bigger concern is staff having to isolate due to being unvax - should they be paid for this? It is disruptive for the department. That I am unsure of. However I will never agree with the loss of bodily autonomy - both for my patients but also for my colleagues.