Do you still agree with mandatory vaccines for NHS?

[woollymammoths]

Not doing this to goad and completely respectful of people’s choices. But genuinely interested in opinions and any research that people are aware of.

At this point in time I am struggling to think of family and friends that do not have covid right now. Some are triple vaccinated, some are unvaccinated. There does not seem to be any distinct differences between how easily it was transmitted or how ill the individuals are - according to their vaccination status.

Example:
My DP is triple jabbed - he has had covid twice (once after 2 jabs, the second time after booster). More ill the second time, but still mild.

His (NHS) department is currently shut down with the amount of (triple jabbed) staff off sick with covid.

I caught covid from him.

I am unvaccinated - have had covid twice. Been unpleasant but not hospitalised. The second time milder than the first.

I am on mat leave but due to return to my NHS role.

Why am I still being forced to be vaccinated?

please do not say ‘just find another job’. That is not the point of my thread

Yes. Everyone in the NHS should be vaccinated. The statistics clearly show the benefit to mass vaccination.

Could you elaborate @RachC2021?

My DH is unvaccinated while I am vaccinated. I have always supported his right to choose but struggle to think how we would move forward without a mass vaccination programme.

If you work in healthcare, you must see that there's an argument for staff to be vaccinated for all the reasons given already. There will always be anecdotes such as those you've given, but the data shows that unvaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus and be more seriously ill.

And just because you had it mildly, doesn't mean someone you come into contact with at work will be so lucky.

Until this is no longer a novel virus, we have to take reasonable steps to control it. I think this is a reasonable step.

@RachC2021

Yes. Everyone in the NHS should be vaccinated. The statistics clearly show the benefit to mass vaccination.

And if exempt? What then? Do you think they should lose job?

Chris Whitty's graphs on TV the other note broke down the stats on vaccinated vs unvaccinated people in hospital even down the details about those who had been boosted and those who hadn't. That might be useful for you to review?

but the data shows that unvaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus and be more seriously ill

Is this still the case with Omnicron?

Yes. Certain vaccinations have always been a requirement fot employment in certain roles. This isn't new, and there is suvpbstantial precedent.

I think it is entirely right that vulnerable patients are in as safe clinical surroundings as possible.

Omicron*

No.

Even a fully vaccinated person can transmit the virus. If the virus prevented transmission then there might be a bit of an argument but it doesn't

thank you @loveisagirlnameddaisy I will look at this

Ah.

I agree that it is sensible for everyone to have a vaccination.

I agree that it is especially important for people in healthcare roles.

But I would much prefer that people should be persuaded of this rather than "mandated".

Why would you not want to be vaccinated if it is protective against serious illness and death?

Did you have a Hep B jab? If so, why wouldn't you have a covid jab?

"I think it is entirely right that vulnerable patients are in as safe clinical surroundings as possible."

@nether

But even a fully vaccinated person could pass the virus on to the vulnerable patient. That's the part I don't understand. If it stopped transmission then fair enough but it doesn't.

Yes, I do. I think the reasons why have been explained ad nauseum, most recently by Chris Whitty, so I will confine myself to that and not elaborate.

Yes I do, unless the employee is medically exempt.

@backtoworktomorrow81

No.

Even a fully vaccinated person can transmit the virus. If the virus prevented transmission then there might be a bit of an argument but it doesn't

But it does reduce transmission. The balance for us to consider is whether this reduction warrants mandatory vaccination.

Yes, they may be healthy and young, so may not worry about getting it, but the people are normally in hospital because they are ill. Don't need to be exposed to added risks. I really don't understand the people choose to work as a medical professional but cannot trust in science and medicine.

@thickthighs73 if genuinely medically exempt then they’re genuinely medically exempt. I’d expect a full risk assessment to be done though — perhaps they have to wear FFP3 masks when other staff only need a surgical mask. Perhaps in a situation where other staff would wear FFP3 they can’t work in and have to work in a different area. I’m not an expert.

What currently happens with other mandatory jabs?

Whilst this might be ok with the odd one not being vaccinated, it would be disaster if a large percentage did not and I struggle to respect any health care worker who does not believe in vaccination.

No I absolutely don't. But then I haven't done all along.

It is a small minority if people now who have chosen not to be vaccinated, although the way some people on here talk about it you'd think there was a massive problem with uptake. The vast vast majority of people have been vaccinated, let's just leave the people who don't to it.

I am against mandatory vaccination, especially as being vaccinated does not stop you getting or passing on the virus.

For delta, vaccination reduced the secondary attack rate from 38% to 25% so it is wrong to say there is no useful effect on reducing transmission. That was based on two doses.

I haven't seen figures for omicron yet, but it's likely to be similar scale reduction after 2 plus booster (though it seems omicrons's SAR is rather higher in the first place). S

OP, can you give some detail about why you don't want to be vaccinated? Are you doubtful of the science behind the vaccine?

@woollymammoths

Could you elaborate *@RachC2021*?

Just the daily reports on the Gov website show it — infections are going up, but deaths and hospitalisations are not going up in tandem as they originally did. There’s a lag in the data so it’s not quite clear yet with Omicron, but you can clearly see for the Delta timeframe that as more people got vaccinated the hospitalisations and deaths were much lower than previously.

I agree, OP. No way should you be coerced to get jabbed, especially when you've had it twice. The RCTs for the jabs don't assess transmissibility, studies of viral load find it to be equivalent, and real world data is at best equivocal on whether there's much benefit on case levels. Vaccination benefits are to the individual. The mandate is just bizarre.

As much as the vaccine should be a personal choice I somehow would not feel comfortable being treated by someone who has not been vaccinated. Considering what the NHS front-line workers have had to deal with (I can't image) I don't know why they would say no as they are working with with science, why would they not trust this vaccine ??