The unvaccinated

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I am genuinely worried about unvaccinated people.

I live in a large northern city. In my naice area 93% of people aged 12+ have have had the first dose of vaccine, 86% the second dose and 74% on boosters.

The areas where there is the least vaccine uptake in my city, is in poorer area's where 33% have the vaccine, these are areas where overall health is poor, education is poor and general outcomes are poor. Despite covid.

I don’t want to start a class war with covid, but it’s really getting hard to ignore that we need to find a way to stop conspiracy theories on Facebook and the like actually targeting people who might not be educated enough to understand what they are reading/seeing.

I say all of this and being gentle.

@Daffodil123456 you were lucky. I know two people in my fairly close social circle who were unvaccinated and died. What's your point?

"sleep walking into hell" Dear god. Vaccinations are not a passport to hell. It's this kind of conspiracy theory crap that is causing the issues. Make a choice but not a choice based on this sort of bullshit.

Many anti vaxxers are highly educated. Some unvaccinated people will just not have bothered because they’ve already had the virus because they were unable to work from home unlike the middle classes and hid away, they’re young and not worried, they don’t trust authority, loads of reasons.

There’s no such thing as ‘the science’ anyone saying that is anti science.

Loads of highly educated people make what some people consider as questionable lifestyle choices about their health.
Not all smokers are uneducated
Not all overweight people are uneducated
One of my relatives who is degree educated and in a well paid tech job is an overweight, insulin dependent type 2 diabetic who has never addressed the problems that might have caused the diabetes, and still makes questionable diet choices.

The problem is deeper than being educated.

@1dayatatime yes sorry I should have been more explicit about what 'it' meant... not COVID but the response measures. While we risk overwhelming the NHS with people who have lower defences (arguably, the unvaccinated), we can't let go and learn to live with COVID like we would flu or any other virus.

I'm annoyed with the isolation - I could have worked for about 8 days out of my 0+10 I was forced to be at home for. I could have 'pushed through' on all of them. Not everyone will be able to say this, of course - many have been bedridden for several days even having been vaccinated - but it's the having to shield that's crippling workplaces in terms of staff shortages.

I think the issue of fake information is one issue, however, the other issue is that many of those who choose to be unvaccinated do read widely and make their decisions on information presented.

I am of the view now that it if you choose to be vaccinated that is your choice but if you then are denied entry to places or can't do varies things so be it. I don't believe in compulsory vaccinations neither do I believe in vaccine passports but people have choice and venues deny entry or the risk is to great then so be it.

InexperiencedDogOwner
Another healthcare professional with a masters degree here who is unvaccinated. I know a lot about how drug companies work and that's why I wouldn't touch the vaccine and certainly would not let them anywhere near my children! Ask yourself why Pfizer want to keep their vaccine data hidden for 75 years? Also why immunity from any lawsuits if it's so safe? 🤔 
Ah, so HCA with 2 GCSEs and penchant for Facebook experts

@TreborBore clearly you can't read

@InexperiencedDogOwner do you feel the same way about all vaccinations out of interest?

I also have a Masters but it's not in science so I'm not sure how that's relevant! The Facebook experts are far more anti-vax than pro-vax too so again, not really relevant.

Anyway, vaccinations have been an absolute gamechanger in the history of the human race - they have saved countless millions of lives and continue to do so. Social media has not.

@ThinWomansBrain

I'm aware that not all highly-trained scientists are in agreement.

My point was that the opinions of people with literally no scientific education are given intellectual parity with epidemiologists, virologists etc.

People seem unwilling to accept that they are not qualified to take positions on the effectiveness of vaccines and the risk profiles.

Getting vaccinated will not stop you being infected by covid. It is not the purpose of vaccines to prevent covid getting into your body and reproducing.

It's purpose is to give your immune system a head start on creating anti-bodies that will defeat the virus within your body by giving an 'training wheels' example to work on first.

Maybe that head start will not be enough, your personal circumstances means that the virus wins anyway and still kills you or leaves you with damaged organs. For most though, the head start will be enough to stop covid getting to the point you need to go into hospital or die.

Sorry, posted too soon. Video offering one perspective on vaccine hesitancy.

That's a really good explanation @Findwen. Thank you.

I know a number of smart bright women and men who are not having the vaccinations, do not believe the media reports that the more intelligent you are the more likely you are to be vaccinated. People have all sorts of reasons for not doing to, mainly fear and lack of trust. Also let's give people the respect that individuals know what is right for their own system. Our bodies do not belong to the state... yet!

I read this on another thread - how far does the lack of trust in the medical profession extend to other professions?
Will people be doing their own accounts, their own conveyancing, their own house surveys etc?

Not everyone who’s unvaccinated is a tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist

I know several. One is against all vaccines her kids are 100% unvaccinated
One was too lazy to go to the vaccination place got covid anyway mildly and since he’s ‘had worse colds’ can’t see any reason for the vaccine
Another doesn’t want it as he’s totally anti medication- won’t even take a paracetamol

So not everyone is listening to fb

I think you worded that badly and unfortunately the way you put it is downright offensive but you are right.

There is a lot of scaremongering and conspiracy theories flying about and some people DO just believe everything they read. Whether it is down to education or not is debatable, some people are just very gullible but clearly something needs to be done to address vaccine uptake or I can see it ending up being mandatory.

I'm not even sure that that would be a bad thing tbh. There is a precedent for compulsory vaccination and it is actually the one disease that has been all but eradicated. Idk, I can just see it happening if we don't get a handle on it soon. No one is complying with lockdowns any more and mask compliance is dropping. We're forcing their hand really, I suppose.

The reasons I’ve been given by people I know are

Won’t have any vaccinations or medication apart from antibiotics and vaccinations for the huge amount of travelling they’re done.
Fertility concerns
Don’t like needles
Can’t be bothered X 3 people
Don’t need it, don’t know what is going into our body X 2 people
I full on hippy type who is just anti.

Imo it depends what you are calling educated. As what people have losted to describe these people (CEO/lawyer/Masters etc), does
not to me get to whether they have A-level maths or science?
Or even a good pass at English.
As among my friends one was lower sets for science and maths but good at say English and has a Masters. Another has a degree after failing English first time.

What makes little sense is why the anti vax are trying to get others to their side.
There is no doubt that the vaccines harm fewer than the virus, and in the UK chances of catching the virus are very very high.
Also if they arent going to take the vaccine then

• it would make sense for them to want everyone else to take it so they all form the herd.
• and so there is a hospital bed for them if they did need it.

Maybe it is more that those who had covid mildly with no side effects the first year dont see the need?

@MamanSparkles you mean you can't get to a vaccine centre using public transport. I don't have a car either but used public transport for ,2 out of 3 vaccine appointment. Last one was using Uber. I am in London and accessibility to vaccine centres is good, nearest is actually 1 mile walk from my home. Why can't they put the vaccine centre in the town centre with a few crèche like in IKEA??? Surely most poorer people esp in minority groups live in towns and cities i.e. inner city. Not discounting rural poverty too but majority of poor are in cities and towns.

I’m in the middle. Can’t we have middle ground people any more?

I think it should be a risk based decision. I’m delighted the vulnerable can get vacced but we need a discussion on the risk of either option These new vaccines are not without risk, we don’t have long term data, and it’s clear that side effects aren’t being fully recorded.

If my mother was an obese 70 year old I would be driving her to the vaccine centre myself. As it happens she isn’t obese and has reacted badly to her booster and can’t have any more exposure to PEG or indeed boosters.

I wouldn’t let any of my children have it just now - not least as covid was a breeze. Why is Pfizer not releasing data? Why can’t we see it? Why is the government fudging the numbers in hospital? The vaccines weren’t tested for their ability to prevent transmission and statements since have been dubious at best

I’m highly educated - not in science - as is my husband and we earn a good wage. I don’t need anyone’s worry thanks - we have all had covid and recovered

I worry where mandates are going and the ghastly divisions being created

@WomanStanleyWoman

Just make sure you avoid the common areas. Even before you consider covid, you might have to meet the kind of people who shop at Poundland, and nobody wants that.

Brilliant

I'm vaccinated. It was a choice, but not one I'm happy with (I fell to constant pressure from my DF) I haven't had booster yet.
DH was vaxxed as soon as he could be and got booster asap.
Got my 16 yo. Double jabbed asap, because he is very worried about covid and has been furiously hand washing and mask wearing throughout.
Still thinking about what to do with my 14 and 12 year olds.

I consider myself unvaxxed, I don't know why. I panic when I hear about vaccine passports and restrictions on unvaxxed. Then I remember it doesn't apply to me.
I can't see myself going anywhere where I have to prove Vax status. It's just so wrong.

I read threads like this, and they put me in an absolute panic that I have made the wrong choice. I can't take it back now. The stuff is in my body. Pro-vaxxers, you are going to have to try a lot harder if you do want to persuade people that this Vax is a good thing.

I don't understand "the science". Or the maths, I do however have a very good handle on the social science, history, philosophy, politics and religion. I am petrified by what is happening at the moment. And the way the pro-vaxxers are totally dismissing it/don't understand it.

Also a PP said that all the vaccine side effects seem to happen to "someone in a FB vid" or your mates cousin's hairdresser. Isn't that the same as covid? It always my cousin's partner's brother, or the teacher from the school in town, or my friend's sister's aunt. It's never someone I know personally.

Honestly, who can be arsed. It’s the same rabid response every time anyone ever mentions any side effects, the same scripted nonsense of focusing on sore arms instead of serious events. I have never before seen people have such faith in a product that they will angrily argue with the manufacturer about their own data
Rabid? Angrily arguing? 🤣
You presented a report as 'evidence' without actually reading or comprehending what you were posting. The report itself contains the 'sore arms' you seem to take issue with. That is because the manufacturer must present ALL adverse reactions no matter how minor they may be. Including sore arms.

Maybe your right. Maybe those figures are people reporting ridiculous things and pretending they’re dead or severely effected when they’re not
Some of them are ridiculous things. Because anyone can self report. And deaths of people who have died and have had the vaccine must be reported.

Maybe we need to get rid of these reporting systems then
Why? The reports are investigated and filtered down to actual 'events' giving a more accurate representation. Better for you to learn from this and do better next time 🤷‍♀️

'The Unvaccinated' = uneducated. Right.... LMFAO 🤣