The unvaccinated

[Xmasprrssiehelp]

I am genuinely worried about unvaccinated people.

I live in a large northern city. In my naice area 93% of people aged 12+ have have had the first dose of vaccine, 86% the second dose and 74% on boosters.

The areas where there is the least vaccine uptake in my city, is in poorer area's where 33% have the vaccine, these are areas where overall health is poor, education is poor and general outcomes are poor. Despite covid.

I don’t want to start a class war with covid, but it’s really getting hard to ignore that we need to find a way to stop conspiracy theories on Facebook and the like actually targeting people who might not be educated enough to understand what they are reading/seeing.

I say all of this and being gentle.

My friend’s friend is a hardcore anti vaxer, he’s into all the conspiracy theories, joined all the groups etc. He’s got Covid and is now in ICU.

I'm not worried about them, they've made their choice.

And also the "uneducated"? I'm very uneducated but I've had my vaccines. The mumsnet middle class with the faux concern for us "uneducated" is patronising as fuck. Just mind your business.

I'm not worried about them, they've made their choice.

But is it a fully informed choice?

I am unvaccinated and I have had Covid it was nothing special

What amazes me was last year was all about BLM etc the big inclusive society picture was painted where we all be more accepting of people this year it’s all about segregation and making the unvaccinated feel unwelcome

Are you aware of what groups mainly make up the unvaccinated OP?

Are you aware that the thousands of immigrants they are going to allow to come to the UK to work in the care industry are not eligible for the vaccine in the UK as they have the ability to sue the Pharma companies, a right UK citizens do not have?

You are sleeping walking into hell

BMI etc

Or it’s a massive fib

@Waxonwaxoff0

I'm not worried about them, they've made their choice.

And also the "uneducated"? I'm very uneducated but I've had my vaccines. The mumsnet middle class with the faux concern for us "uneducated" is patronising as fuck. Just mind your business.

I'm not as well educated as most mumsnetters either, but the fact remains that the largest demographic of unvaccinated tends to be as the OP describes. This is not a slur on you or me, just statistically factual.

@RampantIvy

I'm not worried about them, they've made their choice.

But is it a fully informed choice?

As I said, it's a patronising attitude here. Essentially saying that some people are too thick to make their own copies. Where does it end?

Choices, not copies!

@RampantIvy so what's the solution? Because I can guarantee somebody going round trying to "educate" people will not go down well. This stuff is often ingrained from a young age. There is no trust towards governments from these neighbourhoods, and why should there be when they've just been left to fend for themselves.

I agree op. There are demographics more likely to refuse the vaccine and lack of education lack of critical thinking skills may be part of it.

Why does the phrase 'critical thinking' always sound so patronising?

I can tell you now, there was no critical thinking on my part when I got jabbed - I just want my life back and I'm sure there are many like me! My 2:1 in an arts degree from a RG uni poorly equipped me to make medical or scientific decisions, unfortunately.

I don't know. And who does trust our government anyway? They haven't exactly done anything to earn our trust. I have more faith in medical professionals than Boris.

People paid more attention to David Attenborough than climate advisors. Maybe get someone like him to present facts rather than our buffoon of a PM.

@RampantIvy is right. It's not intended to be a class-based slur but its very clear from these boards that most of the committed unvaccinated have a very poor grasp of science and risk. Yes there are some "clever" people who have drunk the antivaxx Kool Aid but they are generally professional counter-culture types like Piers Corbyn who trade on being awkward. The vast majority of people on these boards who are vaccine sceptic or vaccine hesitant are coming out with woefully weak arguments such as "my body, my choice" or very dubious anecdata about their neighbour's first cousin's periods having stopped for a couple of cycles. There's a persistent idea that your right to do what you bloody well want trumps your broader responsibility.

I think for a long time there's been a lot of distrust of government in our society: this long predates COVID -- it was very much true of my generation too (born early 70s). It's totally understandable that those sections of society which have been royally fucked over by government (people affected by austerity, for example, or many black people) don't trust what the government says.

But what's worrying about this strand of distrust is that it goes well beyond governments and extends to distrust of actual facts. And also the lack of civic responsibility. A lack of ability to see the wider picture and the impact that doggedly insisting on your "choice" has on the choices of the rest of the world.

I would have hoped that COVID, which is probably the worst social crisis since the war, would have helped bring people together and helped people focus their minds on what was important, and also to force people to get themselves a bit more clued up.

At the start of the 20th century large numbers of people whose parents and grandparents had not been educated sought to educate themselves as they understood it was key to social success and to the broader health of the population. This seems to have gone into reverse and large swathes of the population seem to actively choose dubious and non-credible sources of information over more credible ones and almost revel in being anti-scientific and anti-fact.

Whether that's due to poor education policy or long mistrust of government I don't know. But I would hope that whatever government we get next will prioritise education.

I do feel that this is one case where we need to look at the type of education someone has. An oncologist may be a medical professional but is not as qualified to understand how viruses work as a virologist. I wouldn't want advice on cancer from a virologist. A degree in economics does not make me better able to understand the facts...it may help me understand the statistics but does not qualify me in anyway to understand vaccination or virus transmission or mutation.

"The Unvaccinated"; please stop you sound like a condescending arse.

I'm fully vaccinated but respect the right of others to make their own choices. We only know the relatively short term consequences of covid or vaccines, we're all gambling on being better off in the long term (assuming you don't have a statistically higher chance of dying from covid) whatever choice we make.

But if you have the vaccines you should be ok...right?

It doesn't matter how. Many reports I read I will not have the same level of understanding.. I find it incredibly difficult to understand how people on both sides are experts and know more just by spending a few hours reading in peer reviewed information.
I just wonder how we now all believe our option is as valid as an expert.

No one in my household is vaccinated and not planning on it either.

None of us have had covid.

Do not fear us.

@malificent7

But if you have the vaccines you should be ok...right?

There are no guarantees, but it reduces the risk. Most medical decisions are based on risk factors.

But if you have the vaccines you should be ok...right?
Well you only have to look at hospital admissions to see you’re more likely to be ok if you’ve been vaccinated.

OP I get what you mean. I come from one of the areas you describe, and it's a real problem. The issue is a bit more complex than just social media conspiracy theories, although that is a big problem. The problems in my home community are:

• Distrust of healthcare professionals. Our area has been abandoned. When we go to an HCP we get judged, disbelieved and left untreated. Most members of my family have ended up in hospital because a GP has refused to believe them that something is wrong.
• Lack of access to vaccines; they are a drive away. You can't take your kids to the vaccine centre. If you don't have a car and/or have kids in tow, you can't get a vaccine. The elderly in the area who can't travel also can't.
• Language barriers in some parts of the community, although local councillors have done a great job in overcoming this recently.
• Social media. OP is right that if you've never been taught to question what you see online, you won't. It's a real problem and we do need to find a way to shut down conspiracy theories online.

Most of the conspiracy nuts i know are middle class

Is there any research/data on the demographics of groups who are more likely to be anti vax, anti mask, not comply with covid measures?

Most stuff on here is just anecdotal. I don't have any scientific qualifications above a C grade at GCSE (degree in a non science subject from a rubbish uni) but I work with people who have bachelor's/Master's/PhDs in science subjects and they have all had the jab. Whereas the two main people I know who haven't had it are two women I went to school with who were in bottom sets, never had jobs that paid much more than NMW and one is now a grandmother in her 30s. I feel that this influences my opinion that getting vaxxed was the right decision but is it true that most unvaxxed tend to be less educated or is that just my experience?

Excellent post @MamanSparkles. The drive away for vaccines especially. Public transport where I live isn't great, and the vaccination centres aren't all on public transport routes anyway.

@AtomHeartMotherOfGod

"I was thinking 'it's their choice' but actually, I agree you are right to be worried, as they will carry it on for all of us."

++++

I don't understand why you think the unvaccinated will carry this (Covid) on for all of us. The Covid virus will never disappear, it may mutate in to something quite harmless but it will always "carry on".

Whether people are vaccinated or unvaccinated is irrelevant to this fact.

@snapsieplopp

We need to stop pandering to the frightening stupidity of the people who "do their own research" and giving it equivalence to the opinions of highly trained scientists.

The issue is a lack of trust

Your comment implies that all 'highly trained' scientists are in agreement with each other.