Govt plans re unvaccinated feels like a change is afoot

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Anyone noticed the govt and news sources seem to be covering more and more stories regarding the unvaccinated (by choice)
I feel they might be ramping up support for restrictions for unvaccinated people.
It's feel very much like propaganda and warm up the masses.
Anyone agree or noticed this in the last 3/4 days?

If you read the latest ONS data it states that the vaccinated are 4.5 times more likely to test positive for Omicron than the unvaccinated, if you are vaccinated you pass it on, if you are unvaccinated you pass it on, why do people think the unvaxxed are so dangerous?

Where is the evidence that Sadiq Khan was defining 'unvaccinated' as 'not triple vaccinated' please?

@CaliforniaDrumming - Why would you want Covid passes for theatres and cinemas though if Omicron is not causing mass hospitilisations/deaths? I genuinely don't get it! We all know now that the vaccinated are catching / spreading Covid too so wanting to exclude unvaccinated people from these venues just makes you look a bit spiteful and discriminatory.

@MonsteraMother

"97% of patients with covid in St George's hospital in London have had no vaccinations" Sadiq Khan being interviewed on LBC.

Lockdown must be avoided at all costs but I'm not sure how to convince those that refuse to be vaccinated. Their distrust is so deep that no evidence will persuade them.

If he said 'no vaccinations' surely that's quite clear?

@ilovesooty

Where is the evidence that Sadiq Khan was defining 'unvaccinated' as 'not triple vaccinated' please?

Here you go.

insidecroydon.com/2021/12/18/97-of-south-west-london-covid-patients-are-unvaccinated/

You will need to read further than the sensationalist headline though.

Politicians never lie or bend the truth they are totally reliable we can see their exemplary behaviour demonstrated right throughout the pandemic clearly if anyone doesn’t trust them they’re obviously a thick anti vaxxer….

Australia has just announced they will be charging unvaxxed Covid patients for their care.

What's the problem with that though?

“ Lockdown must be avoided at all costs but I'm not sure how to convince those that refuse to be vaccinated. Their distrust is so deep that no evidence will persuade them.”
Sadiq Khan

This suggests that we’ve run out of road now and the next step is using sanctions to increase vax uptake.

Thank you. The article refers to October and November then goes on to say that you are eight times less likely to be seriously ill if you've had two vaccines and a booster.

To those saying the decrease of the death rates is proof that the vaccines work - isn’t it also down to the fact that the virus has mutated into a milder form?

To the poster who is clinically vulnerable I really am sorry, this pandemic must have been really awful for you. And I’m not trying to be inflammatory or upset you but can I ask you, did you worry pre covid about catching things like a nasty bout of the flu? Because fingers crossed omicron seems to be showing signs of having mutated into something on par with a common cold. I was terrified of covid at the start too but really think the risk is a lot lower now for everyone, especially now people can vaccinate themselves against if they choose to.

[quote nojudgementhere]@CaliforniaDrumming - Why would you want Covid passes for theatres and cinemas though if Omicron is not causing mass hospitilisations/deaths? I genuinely don't get it! We all know now that the vaccinated are catching / spreading Covid too so wanting to exclude unvaccinated people from these venues just makes you look a bit spiteful and discriminatory.[/quote]
I genuinely don't see the point in engaging with someone who thinks scientists and doctors across the world are lying about the effectiveness of vaccines and that what "we all know" is the real, unvarnished truth.

If you are so entitled that you think you should able to go to large events and the West End without a vax pass, I have nothing more to say. I think I am relatively moderate as compared to people on here who would like passes for Tesco's or make the unvaxxed pay for their own NHS care, so I am not going to defend myself any further. I am fine with that level of discrimination.

@ilovesooty

Thank you. The article refers to October and November then goes on to say that you are eight times less likely to be seriously ill if you've had two vaccines and a booster.

Yes, it does. But, do you really not see a problem with the way communication has been handled throughout this pandemic?

The government and scientists seem to have taken the decision to treat us all as though we are very small children who need to be corralled into doing what they want and if that takes fudging a few figures/telling a few mistruths then so be it. The problem is once I've been lied to/misled once I then find it very difficult to trust that person's word ever again. I would imagine there's a fair few other people who are having the same problem.

@CaliforniaDrumming - To be 'fine' with any form or level of discrimination is pretty shocking in my mind but there you go.

[quote nojudgementhere]@CaliforniaDrumming - To be 'fine' with any form or level of discrimination is pretty shocking in my mind but there you go.[/quote]
Yes, there you go indeed. You must be having to reach for the smelling salts with most of the posts on this thread, and indeed with every European poster who needs a pass to go into a cafe.

nojudgementhere

Most people outside of MN are absolutely against the vile things being suggested here and if we ever come out of this mess those who have publicly expressed those kind of views will pay the price for it.

@userperuser

nojudgementhere

Most people outside of MN are absolutely against the vile things being suggested here and if we ever come out of this mess those who have publicly expressed those kind of views will pay the price for it.

I think you're right. I have a hunch that in a couple of years time nobody will want to admit that they supported vaccine passports/mandates/forcible injections and all the other crazy stuff. It will probably go very quiet - a bit like the way all the 'loo roll stockpilers' wouldn't admit now to losing thier minds over that!

@Headingnorthwoste

Australia has just announced they will be charging unvaxxed Covid patients for their care.

Untrue

[quote nojudgementhere]@Walkaround - But when you realise that only 2% of Covid vaccines have been administered in the whole of Africa then it's quite clear that the WHO have plenty to be getting on elsewhere! Trying to coerce or force a small minority of people (many of them young) over here is not really the priority and has the potential to hugely damage our society.

I think most scientists agree that at some point Covid is going to become manageable and the crisis will pass. If we make the mistake of sliding into authoritarianism, then all our lives will be far poorer for many years to come. Be very careful what you wish for.[/quote]
@nojudgementhere - I don’t have to be careful what I wish for. I’m not wishing for anything specific, as I am not a decision maker. I was merely pointing out that it is deeply hypocritical for people to use the WHO to justify why they are not selfish to be refusing vaccination and to argue their vaccine should go to an African country instead, given that the WHO thinks all countries should ultimately have at least a 70% vaccination rate, something even the countries being more authoritarian about it are struggling to achieve. Why not just be honest - they don’t really give a toss one way or the other about other countries, they just don’t want to be one of the 70% vaccinated.

@Headingnorthwoste

Australia has just announced they will be charging unvaxxed Covid patients for their care.

Bollocks they have.

@Sarahschild I saw the story on BBC news channel earlier. Just looked it up and it’s NSW, so doesn’t cover whole country.

Statistics can be useful at times but they really don't tell the whole story - do they?

Well, they give a fairly good indication, don't they.

Australia’s PM is full of shit and no matter what your opinions on vaccines most people are disappointed with his leadership and an election is coming up next year.
He has no control over our state leaders and as much as he says vaccines are not mandatory he does not stop state leaders mandating laws that are actually unconstitutional.
Everything had opened up until today they announced masks and qr checking in is again compulsory. We had 9 days of “freedom” and now we’re back in the same position.
Funny how they let us out so we can stimulate the economy before Christmas.
Restrictions in force til 27/1.
Basically vaxxed or not we’re all in the same boat.
All of our leaders are corrupt and full of lies.
And to the person who quoted my “vaccines don’t work”, is not the purpose of a vaccine to prevent and eliminate disease? If the answer is yes, then they don’t work.

[quote Headingnorthwoste]@Sarahschild I saw the story on BBC news channel earlier. Just looked it up and it’s NSW, so doesn’t cover whole country.[/quote]
I'm in NSW and this is not happening.

NSW government in Australia are considering charging unvaxxed patients for care. I heard it on bbc news earlier and missed the important details so apologies.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/23/unethical-doctors-condemn-nsw-government-for-considering-charging-unvaccinated-patients-for-covid-care