Govt plans re unvaccinated feels like a change is afoot

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Anyone noticed the govt and news sources seem to be covering more and more stories regarding the unvaccinated (by choice)
I feel they might be ramping up support for restrictions for unvaccinated people.
It's feel very much like propaganda and warm up the masses.
Anyone agree or noticed this in the last 3/4 days?

Some people really need to cop themselves on. Many countries have vax passports and people crack on. Genuinely. None of this pseudo tin foil hat shit.

And comparing it to Nazi germany and the genuine horrors therein is disgusting in the extreme.

ClaudetheCat I agree. There are too many anti vax lies being peddled on here.

Meanwhile, in the real world, good news just in! Headline in the Telegraph this morning says 'No need for new Covid restrictions as Omicron hospital risk two-thirds lower' Apparently it's looking increasingly unlikely that further restrictions will be needed.

Genuinely curious to know that if this proves to be true, and the NHS is not going to be overwhelmed, will the pro-vaxx people be happy to leave the unvaxxed people to live out their lives in peace? So much of it seems to be about punishing people for not conforming - it's sad.

Yes but if you look at the stats, the unvaccinated are taking up most of the hospital beds now and are hosting most of the infections.

As someone who is ext clinically vulnerable, I think it's right that those who choose not to get a jab, just because they've read propaganda, take responsibility for their decisions. How about they receive no medical help versus are restricted? Nothing is palatable, right?

But the reason we keep getting these variants is cos people get infected.

So glad omnicrom looks like it might be less deadly but that doesn't mean for some of us it reduces our risk.

Personally I'm sick of anti vaxxers still posting crap on fb etc. They need to get real. I even had someone tell me that the ext clinically vulnerable shouldn't work, let healthy people work. I asked him if he could do my job. He couldn't.
There are around 14m people like me in the UK, we are not a few oldies scattered here and there. Yet this minority of anti vaxxers holds us all hostage. Is that palatable?

@Dibbydoos

Yes but if you look at the stats, the unvaccinated are taking up most of the hospital beds now and are hosting most of the infections. As someone who is ext clinically vulnerable, I think it's right that those who choose not to get a jab, just because they've read propaganda, take responsibility for their decisions. How about they receive no medical help versus are restricted? Nothing is palatable, right? But the reason we keep getting these variants is cos people get infected. So glad omnicrom looks like it might be less deadly but that doesn't mean for some of us it reduces our risk. Personally I'm sick of anti vaxxers still posting crap on fb etc. They need to get real. I even had someone tell me that the ext clinically vulnerable shouldn't work, let healthy people work. I asked him if he could do my job. He couldn't. There are around 14m people like me in the UK, we are not a few oldies scattered here and there. Yet this minority of anti vaxxers holds us all hostage. Is that palatable?

The unvaccinated are not holding anybody hostage, nor are they hosting most infections. Its just as infectious amongst vaccinated. The reason variants keep popping up is because the virus is doing what viruses do, not because somebody chose not to get vaccinated.

@Dibbydoos - I am very sorry that you are clinically vulnerable but I really don't understand why you are placing all the blame on unvaccinated people? If you look at the stats (the real stats and not the ones reported in the gutter press) you will see that the unvaccinated are NOT taking up all the beds in hospital. This has been discussed and disproved several times in this thread alone so why you persist in believing it I just don't know! You could lock up every unvaccinated person tomorrow and Omicron would still be spreading wildly amongst its vaccinated hosts. It would make no difference to whether or not you were safe to leave your house. Therefore, phrases that refer to antivaxxers holding you hostage are inflammatory and not true.

I hope the situation improves and that infection rates drop soon so that your life can go back to normal. I really don't wish you any harm and don't like to hear that you are suffering.

No, but I have noticed a lot of paranoid, mind controlled & frankly pretty bloody scientifically thick antivaxxers coming out to stir things up

If you charge people to use the nhs because they chose not to get the vaccine, where does it stop? Charge smokers for smoking related conditions, drinkers, the overweight, people who have avoidable accidents?

But the reason we keep getting these variants is cos people get infected. So cancel the booster programme and send some of our vast vaccine stockpile to sub-Saharan Africa to prevent the next variant? (Which is what the WHO says we should do).

What's the point of trashing our civil liberties by forcing vaccinations on people who don't want them when there are millions of people worldwide who would love to receive a vaccine, but can't get hold of them.

The WHO thinks the way to stop the pandemic is for every country in the world to have very high vaccination rates. The quickest way to achieve this is for people to accept vaccinations offered when they are offered, rather than wasting them by refusing the vaccines that have been ordered for their communities. People refusing vaccines should stop pretending they are not part of the problem so far as the WHO is concerned.

"97% of patients with covid in St George's hospital in London have had no vaccinations" Sadiq Khan being interviewed on LBC.

Lockdown must be avoided at all costs but I'm not sure how to convince those that refuse to be vaccinated. Their distrust is so deep that no evidence will persuade them.

@Walkaround - But when you realise that only 2% of Covid vaccines have been administered in the whole of Africa then it's quite clear that the WHO have plenty to be getting on elsewhere! Trying to coerce or force a small minority of people (many of them young) over here is not really the priority and has the potential to hugely damage our society.

I think most scientists agree that at some point Covid is going to become manageable and the crisis will pass. If we make the mistake of sliding into authoritarianism, then all our lives will be far poorer for many years to come. Be very careful what you wish for.

@MonsteraMother

"97% of patients with covid in St George's hospital in London have had no vaccinations" Sadiq Khan being interviewed on LBC.

Lockdown must be avoided at all costs but I'm not sure how to convince those that refuse to be vaccinated. Their distrust is so deep that no evidence will persuade them.

The reason the distrust is so deep is because the evidence is misreported so many times, your post being a prime example!

Just in case anyone actually believed the above stat and is panicking (or planning revenge on their nearest unvaccinated neighbour!) please can I make it very clear that the 97% refers to patients who are not TRIPLE vaccinated. This 97% therefore includes anyone who is single or double jabbed too. Not such convincing data now is it? But then why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

[quote nojudgementhere]@Dibbydoos - I am very sorry that you are clinically vulnerable but I really don't understand why you are placing all the blame on unvaccinated people? If you look at the stats (the real stats and not the ones reported in the gutter press) you will see that the unvaccinated are NOT taking up all the beds in hospital. This has been discussed and disproved several times in this thread alone so why you persist in believing it I just don't know! You could lock up every unvaccinated person tomorrow and Omicron would still be spreading wildly amongst its vaccinated hosts. It would make no difference to whether or not you were safe to leave your house. Therefore, phrases that refer to antivaxxers holding you hostage are inflammatory and not true.

I hope the situation improves and that infection rates drop soon so that your life can go back to normal. I really don't wish you any harm and don't like to hear that you are suffering.[/quote]
You're about 75% less likely to catch it if you're unvaccinated. Given the R rate is around 3.47 if 10 people caught it today, within in week, around 35 people would have it, then 122, then 420. (And far more if some of those people chose to use public transport or go Christmas shopping in a busy mall).
However, if vaccination had prevented 70% of those first group from catching, it, then it would be 3 people in week 1, and even if they were only hanging out with unvaccinated people, that would mean around 10 people sick in week 2. Let's say that most of the people they meet with are vaccinated and therefore have a lower chance of catching it, so instead of making 3*3.5 = 35 people sick, it's about a quarter of that, or 10 more people... And so on.

That's why vaccinations are hugely helpful, even though we do know that vaccinated people can still pass it on, or catch it.

Because of the way exponential growth works, reducing transmission can mean week 3 is 10 Vs 420. That's far fewer sick people - AND we know that vaccinated people are much likely to end up hospitalised, so those 10, if vaccinated, will also stay healthier, and the NHS will continue to function for anyone - unvaccinated or not - who needs it.

Well some of you may be interested in the Australian PM's latest stance on Covid generally - seems to be a complete 180 turnaround! You can hear what he says on John Campbell's latest offering, seems now ScoMo is going to treat Aussies as adults? Doesn't sound like he wants to mandate the vaccine. Starts at 2 minutes in to this video:

@Sarahschild are you in Australia? Can you fill us in more about this?

Sadly we can see that there are terribly selfish and deluded people on MN, as well as real life. Perhaps they have popped up on MN in order to gain a wider audience or to convene with fellow anti-vaxxers.

However many times you mention measles, or polio, or the unvaxxed in hospital, there's always a (uninformed/daft) answer. For quite a few on here it all boils down to the fact that they are consummately selfish. If someone were saying that they didn't want the vaccine, but were prepared to retreat from public life and wear a mask if required in shops etc, then so be it. But oh, no. They want to crack on and reap all the benefits, but conserve their precious selves. They are happy to hang on to the majority's coat tails They really should feel very, very ashamed. (But fat chance of that.)

Those who believe that the vaccine was a useless waste of time, I just can't get inside their heads (or want to). Why were people dying/being hospitalised in early 2020? Was Boris in hospital for a stunt? (Don't answer) Did Derek Draper nearly die (and is still very ill)?

You're about 75% less likely to catch it if you're unvaccinated. I'm sorry but anyone with eyes and ears can see this is not the case now! Would be very interested to know how/when they came up with that statistic? Is it another one from Neil Ferguson's magical calculator?

Good news as it's looking like the hospitilisations are far lower with Omicron so the NHS won't be overwhelmed (by Covid at least). If this is the case, will you still be desperate to live in a society with vaccine passports/mandates or will you be happy to move on and let everyone get on with their lives in peace?

Oh sorry - my mistake! Just saw the quote I copied from you is 'Your're about 75% LESS likely to catch it if you're unvaccinated.' Sounds more likely to be honest so sorry for arguing!

You are 10 times more likely to catch it if you are unvaccinated, and 20 times more likely to die of it if you are unvaccinated - according to the CDC.

@nojudgementhere

Meanwhile, in the real world, good news just in! Headline in the Telegraph this morning says 'No need for new Covid restrictions as Omicron hospital risk two-thirds lower' Apparently it's looking increasingly unlikely that further restrictions will be needed.

Genuinely curious to know that if this proves to be true, and the NHS is not going to be overwhelmed, will the pro-vaxx people be happy to leave the unvaxxed people to live out their lives in peace? So much of it seems to be about punishing people for not conforming - it's sad.

Gosh that'll be disappointing for at least half the people on this thread.

@CrunchyCarrot

Well some of you may be interested in the Australian PM's latest stance on Covid generally - seems to be a complete 180 turnaround! You can hear what he says on John Campbell's latest offering, seems now ScoMo is going to treat Aussies as adults? Doesn't sound like he wants to mandate the vaccine. Starts at 2 minutes in to this video:

@Sarahschild are you in Australia? Can you fill us in more about this?

Don't get too excited. Scotty's trying to get re-elected. You might want to read a reputable news source for more accurate and recent updates re Australia. Hint: Masks are back, QR codes are back, etc.

@milkyaqua

You are 10 times more likely to catch it if you are unvaccinated, and 20 times more likely to die of it if you are unvaccinated - according to the CDC.

So does that mean a healthy, slim unvaccinated 18 year old with no co-morbities is 20 times more likely to die than an 85 year old who is triple-jabbed? Really? Statistics can be useful at times but they really don't tell the whole story - do they?

@milkyaqua

You are 10 times more likely to catch it if you are unvaccinated, and 20 times more likely to die of it if you are unvaccinated - according to the CDC.

Is Neil Ferguson in charge of the CDC as well? He seems to have a wide remit.

In answer to some of the posts earlier, if Omicron is milder, I am happy for no major restrictions. I would still like Covid vax passes to actually be enforced for the theatre, gigs and events, as they should have already been. Vax refusers are always saying on here that they never go anywhere or do anything beyond pop to the supermarket, so it should not affect them.