AIBU to think people unwilling to get vaxxed but willing to accept treatment for covid = hypocritical as fuck?

[PurpleIndigoViolet]

While I disagree with people who are unwilling to be vaccinated due to concerns about the speed of vaccine development, ‘we’re all guinea pigs’ etc I can sort of under their point. What I am struggling to understand though is those people who refuse the vaccine for this reason but then are willing to accept hospital treatment for covid.

Surely if you think the vaccine is too rushed, long term effects aren’t fully known etc, then you’d apply this thinking to the treatments used for covid too? These treatments have only been used in relation to covid for less than two years so all these anti-vax arguments hold true for covid treatments as well. Yet it seems many anti vaxxers have no qualms about seeking hospital treatment for covid if they get seriously sick.

So - if you refused the vaccine on the grounds mentioned above, and you have received, or would be willing to receive, hospital treatment for covid, I’m curious how you justify this logically?

Yes the vaccines have been given to many people but long term follow up data clearly cannot exist yet

Vaccines don't have long-term side effects, abigail, that's a misunderstanding of how they work. It is possible that a short-term reaction might lead to a longer term health problem but it would result from a reaction observed very soon after receiving the vaccine. A reaction cannot show up for the first time years after receiving a vaccine.

@thing47

Yes the vaccines have been given to many people but long term follow up data clearly cannot exist yet

Vaccines don't have long-term side effects, abigail, that's a misunderstanding of how they work. It is possible that a short-term reaction might lead to a longer term health problem but it would result from a reaction observed very soon after receiving the vaccine. A reaction cannot show up for the first time years after receiving a vaccine.

Let me re-phrase - rare side effects thought to be unrelated but which may, in fact, be related. It takes time for those to emerge but given the numbers being vaccinated I agree it’s extremely unlikely. But not impossible. Just as the unvaccinated young dying of covid isn’t impossible.

The point is, it is arrogant to assume ignorance or stupidity is driving vaccine hesitancy. Better to encourage people and not cause them to entrench by trying to force them. Covid is going nowhere. We will most likely all need vaccinating every 3-6 months for years. Some started last year. Some will start next year. That’s ok. Everyone has their tipping point and some need a close friend or relative to die or nearly die before it becomes salient.

I agree OP but is it anymore different than smokers, they know the risks yet still get treated.

I don’t think non vaccinated people should be denied treatment. I’m just curious why they’d accept treatment for covid but not accept to be vaccinated in the first place.

Because they might die of course

But they were aware of that when they refused the vaccine

No more hypocritical than fat people who refuse to diet and end up with diabetes, people who smoke and refuse to give up and end up being treated for lung cancer, extreme sports enthusiasts who refuse to stop doing dangerous things and end up in casualty.

If you are going to refuse treatment for people who don't want this vaccine, you need to apply it to all people who take risks with their health if you are genuinely coming from an angle of pressure on healthcare services. If not, you are ironically being the hypocrite.

@Boombastic22

I’m with you OP.

They’ve turned down the recognised treatment for covid. Frankly they should be denied other treatment. Far too risky for them.

And I think this is fully distinguishable from obesity/alcohol etc. We are in a global pandemic.

In that case, refund all the tax they have paid towards the NHS. The NHS is supposedly free at the point of service. Why should people who might pay thousands in tax towards the NHS not get the same service as people who have paid nothing, just because of their choice of body autonomy?

Let me re-phrase - rare side effects thought to be unrelated but which may, in fact, be related. It takes time for those to emerge

Fair enough, yes. You obviously do understand. Vaccines can be the secondary (or indirect) cause of a health issue further down the track, but they can't be the primary cause.

Apologies if I seemed pedantic it's just that so many people in RL don't seem to have a proper grasp of how vaccines actually work.

@SleepingStandingUp

People choose to smoke - are the unreasonable to not refuse cancer treatment? People choose to snowboard - are they unreasonable to not refuse treatment for a broken leg? People choose to drink - are they unreasonable to not refuse treatment for liver damage? People choose to not get a new vaccine they're unfamiliar with - why are THEY unreasonable to not refuse treatment for covid?

Perhaps if we're worthy treating we should also refuse to treat anyone who's broke lock down rules?

That's not what's being said. The point is they are wary of one medical intervention, often because they believe it hasn't been tested long enough, but are often prepared to accept other medical interventions that are also new.

“are often prepared to accept other medical interventions that are also new.”

Like what?

@bumbleymummy

“are often prepared to accept other medical interventions that are also new.”

Like what?

The monoclonal antibody treatments for a start.

@thing47

Let me re-phrase - rare side effects thought to be unrelated but which may, in fact, be related. It takes time for those to emerge

Fair enough, yes. You obviously do understand. Vaccines can be the secondary (or indirect) cause of a health issue further down the track, but they can't be the primary cause.

Apologies if I seemed pedantic it's just that so many people in RL don't seem to have a proper grasp of how vaccines actually work.

No need to apologise. I’m fully in favour of encouraging folk to accept the vaccine. I’m just not in favour of forcing them or trying to ‘gotcha’ them into accepting it - it won’t work and will likely create bigger problems. There has always been a level of resistance to vaccine uptake. Time will sort it out one way or the other - either covid will become less of an issue or the hesitant will experience losses that change their perspective or data will emerge that reassures them (or doesn’t!)

@BlueBlancmange
Monoclonal antibodies have been licensed since the 1980’s. Hardly ‘new’!

@TheCatWearsPrada

I'm sure if you have a look at the many many threads asking the exact same question you'll find an answer.

This is a different question.

Op isn't asking if un vaccinated people should be allowed treatment, she's asking why they would want "untested" treatment if they won't have the "untested" vaccine.

It's a good question, but the answer is desperate times....Plenty of seriously ill unvaxxed people have suddenly decided they wished theu were vaccinated afterall.

[quote Abigail12345654321]@BlueBlancmange
Monoclonal antibodies have been licensed since the 1980’s. Hardly ‘new’![/quote]
I assume they had to do something to make them work specifically against Covid, since they weren't available straight away.

Yes they are ‘hypocritical as fuck’ but so is anybody who makes a lifestyle decision that places an unnecessary burden on public healthcare.

That’s a lot of people out there.

@soredust

No more hypocritical than fat people who refuse to diet and end up with diabetes, people who smoke and refuse to give up and end up being treated for lung cancer, extreme sports enthusiasts who refuse to stop doing dangerous things and end up in casualty.

If you are going to refuse treatment for people who don't want this vaccine, you need to apply it to all people who take risks with their health if you are genuinely coming from an angle of pressure on healthcare services. If not, you are ironically being the hypocrite.

This is becoming a VERY tired argument. The point is those people aren't overwhelming the health service all at once and aren't the cause of lockdowns or restricting other people's freedom to work/make a living/travel/socialise.

You might as well say "but what about the people who have the temerity to live beyond 70/have babies/be disabled/get cancer" as they take the most from the health service. Stupid arguments.

“The point is those people aren't overwhelming the health service all at once and aren't the cause of lockdowns or restricting other people's freedom to work/make a living/travel/socialise.”

What do you think the other ~95% of non-covid patients are in hospital with? Given data from previous years, obesity related illnesses are probably a pretty significant proportion of those hospital patients. Imagine if we didn’t have to worry about hospital capacity for covid patients because we didn’t have as many hospitalisations for obesity related illnesses? We wouldn’t need to ‘restrict other people’s freedom to work/make a living/travel/socialise’. See? It can work both ways.

Some posters are missing the point. The more extreme anti vaxxers say, "I don't know whats in it," "it might have long term effects," and "I've been doing my own research."

Guarantee they never say/think any of the above when told their covid treatment while in hospital.

@Sparklfairy

Some posters are missing the point. The more extreme anti vaxxers say, "I don't know whats in it," "it might have long term effects," and "I've been doing my own research."

Guarantee they never say/think any of the above when told their covid treatment while in hospital.

Is it really so difficult to see that people who are fit and healthy will make different decisions if they are facing death?

An extreme example would be amputation.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken the OP asked if it was hypocritical, and I think it is. That doesn't mean I think people should be denied treatment or I'd dance around their hospital bed gleefully saying I told you so.

@Sparklfairy

Some posters are missing the point. The more extreme anti vaxxers say, "I don't know whats in it," "it might have long term effects," and "I've been doing my own research."

Guarantee they never say/think any of the above when told their covid treatment while in hospital.

That isn’t what the more extreme anti vaxxers say! It’s what the vaccine hesitant say.

The more extreme say it’s Bill or the Illuminati injecting them with nanobots to make them infertile or some such nonsense!