AIBU to think people unwilling to get vaxxed but willing to accept treatment for covid = hypocritical as fuck?

[PurpleIndigoViolet]

While I disagree with people who are unwilling to be vaccinated due to concerns about the speed of vaccine development, ‘we’re all guinea pigs’ etc I can sort of under their point. What I am struggling to understand though is those people who refuse the vaccine for this reason but then are willing to accept hospital treatment for covid.

Surely if you think the vaccine is too rushed, long term effects aren’t fully known etc, then you’d apply this thinking to the treatments used for covid too? These treatments have only been used in relation to covid for less than two years so all these anti-vax arguments hold true for covid treatments as well. Yet it seems many anti vaxxers have no qualms about seeking hospital treatment for covid if they get seriously sick.

So - if you refused the vaccine on the grounds mentioned above, and you have received, or would be willing to receive, hospital treatment for covid, I’m curious how you justify this logically?

I agree with you OP. If anything they should pay for it.

As I said I have covid now and I just feel like people are wanting me to die to say "I told you so" regarding vaccines..

I very much doubt people are wanting you to die. But at someone with covid myself, my first thought was that I may have already infected someone who wouldn’t be able to cope with covid as well as me. I felt sick that I had had coffee with a friend that morning and may have passed it to her. (I’d had a negative PCR two days before and zero symptoms so the LF line was a huge shock.)

We all know that vaccines don’t stop you catching or spreading covid, but they do help reduce transmission so at least I know I’ve done my bit. And also have much less chance of being a burden on the overstretched nhs (unlikely given my age and health status but you never know).

It’s an interesting point. I think the increase in vaccine uptake in France after the health pass was implemented is also interesting. If I genuinely thought the vaccine was unsafe or questionable, not being able to go out to dinner would not make me change my mind. Vaccine refusal in some cases seems to be almost a principle issue rather than something based on genuine fear or concern.

That being said, I categorically do not believe in compulsory vaccination. I think our approach of negative testing for those who decide against the vaccine is much more sensible.

@AvocadoTrees

I agree with you OP. If anything they should pay for it.

Am on UC. How will I pay? make me homeless?

We had an anti-vaxxer wake up on icu and accuse us of trying to kill him. At least he was consistent

I’ve had to listen to patients that don’t believe in vaccines, don’t believe in COVID but don’t want their septic, unwell mother to go into hospital because she isn’t vaccinated and would need to go in the hot zone (COVID) side of A and E because she has a cough and a temp ?!?!?!

If you don’t believe in it why would it matter where she went 🙄

But people still catch covid that have been vacconated? & people still spread covid that have been vaccinated?

The vast majority of this anti covid vaccine lot are just a bit thick rather than holding true medicinal understanding & beliefs. So I don't think they would even think twice about accepting everything thrown at them in hospital once they actually get ill

This is my uncle to a T . Refused the vaccine because he likes to flout any rules , told anyone who would listen that Covid doesn’t exist and ended up in hospital with it. Bloody idiot.

Diabetes and cancer are two different specialities though. Someone obese needing treatment by one department should have no impact on anybody else needing treatment for another condition which isn't treated by the same doctor

This is just not right. They are all competing for finite funds. Every treatment that is required for self inflicted reasons takes cash away from those who have conditions they are not responsible for.

Interesting how there’s so many of these posts today 🤔

I do think it’s highly ironic that anti vaxxers aren’t willing to take an “experimental” vaccine but are willing to have “experimental” treatment if they end up in hospital

[quote howley1]@Congratulationsandcelebrations most therapists/counselling will say they deal with phobias and should be able to help you. even if you're not totally sure which part of it you're nervous of right now, they will help figure it out. Good luck![/quote]
Thank you, I definitely need to do something about this.

I'm fat and I drink too much. I'm at a high risk of breast cancer because of this. Should I not be allowed treatment if I do end up with it?

According to a doctor friend, a lot of the unvaccinated people who come into hospital really sick with Covid ask if they can have their vaccination at that point. They genuinely believed "it's only a cols" "Only old people die" and realise too late they were wrong. It's tragic that so many people have been fed so much dangerous misinformation on the internet and have died because of it.

God, this is so boring!!

There are about a million other threads attacking the unvaccinated, why dont you go and spew your vitriol on one of them instead.

NB- I’m talking here about antivaxers/ those wilfully refusing the vaccine without any medical reason such as phobia, health issue etc …

I think ranting about anti vax theories and stubbornly refusing to get the jab because they are caught up in all the misinformation/ are convinced they will be fine/ surround themselves with people who feed their anti vax agenda is very different to suddenly being carted off to hospital, realising you’ve made a huge mistake and staring death in the face. Very few people at that point are going to be so bloody minded as to refuse treatment - if they’re even capable of making such a decision. Additionally much of the treatment will no doubt be standard medical interventions they wouldn’t deem ‘experimental’- oxygen, antivirals etc

I did read an interview with an ITU consultant who said one of the worst things he encountered was unvaxed patients about to be ventilated realising their mistake and begging for the vaccine, only to be told it was far too late for that. Equally there are apparently those who still insist covid is a hoax (and that they have something else) as they lie dying from C-19. It’s in equal parts infuriating and heart breaking for all concerned.

There was a very similar thread on here which got deleted earlier today.

I don't see your logic op.

@howley1

I don't think people are getting the Ops question.

If people turn down the vaccine because they don't want the experimental drug.. Will they also turn down the new Ritonavir (Pfizers antiviral drug u will be given ?)

I expect most would turn it down - the majority of patients hospitalised with Covid are treated with oxygen and very old, established and well understood medicines - and possibly with ventilatory support. I expect many would not wish to take the newly developed antiviral just as they didn’t want the vaccine, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t benefit (if seriously unwell) from other hospital treatment.

People are allowed to decline novel treatments.

@Allmyarseandpeggymartin

I do think it’s highly ironic that anti vaxxers aren’t willing to take an “experimental” vaccine but are willing to have “experimental” treatment if they end up in hospital

What ‘experimental’ treatment?

@Shepandawing

I dont think your logic stacks up, people are being treated for covid with medicines and treatment that has been around for a long time?

I am vaxed but I can see if you were confused or a skeptic why the messaging now isn't helping.
If you are not vaxxed you are being urged to get vaxxed and if you are, you are being urged to get a booster as the vax may not work.

Nope, things like Ronapreve, Remdesivir etc are brand spanking new.m, far less tested than the vaccines.

OP, most people don’t get vaccinated for the same reason some people don’t get travel insurance - they don’t think it will happen to them. So obviously when it does happen to them, they are quite happy to have any treatment going, in order not to die.

The hardcore antivaxxers do sometimes die at home (I saw a case in the second wave of somebody who had decided to use vitamin C instead of coming to hospital, with predictable results).

I’ve also known patients insistent they don’t want anything chemical in their body “unless they need it”, ie they will have intubation if it is necessary to save their life, whereas vaccination isn’t “necessary” so they don’t want it. They are just fundamentally unable to grasp the concept of prevention (similar issues with taking blood pressure tablets, getting their diabetic foot looked at in a timely fashion, etc). You can’t force people to care about their own health if they don’t.

We've moving this to the coronavirus topic board now.

@Abigail12345654321 It was a novel virus - the NHS has spent the last 2 years working out how to treat it

The ones I know can’t even articulate why they didn’t take the vaccine. They just “ain’t havin’ it”. So I doubt they’d see the connection.

And obviously once you stick your stake in the ground like that with a controversial opinion, it’s difficult socially to backtrack.

I agree.

Also, those saying should the obese/alcoholics/smokers get out on the same list, YES!

All of those things are preventable and treatable if you make the effort. I get addictions are a disease themselves, but if you go through life without at least trying not to drink/smoke/eat less or seek support for those things then you shouldn't be on the transplant list for lungs and liver when there are people out there who have actual, non-preventable diseases of these organs who would give ANYTHING to be well.

People aren’t really answering your OP. I agree that if they deny the vaccine on the basis that it’s new, they should also apply that logic to the new drugs. But firstly I think there’s a sizeable majority of anti-vaxxers who are cognitively impaired, especially those citing the newness of the vaccine as the problem rather than a balance of risks. Secondly I don’t think the drug differs from its predecessors as much as an RNA vaccine differs from previous vaccines.