AIBU to think people unwilling to get vaxxed but willing to accept treatment for covid = hypocritical as fuck?

[PurpleIndigoViolet]

While I disagree with people who are unwilling to be vaccinated due to concerns about the speed of vaccine development, ‘we’re all guinea pigs’ etc I can sort of under their point. What I am struggling to understand though is those people who refuse the vaccine for this reason but then are willing to accept hospital treatment for covid.

Surely if you think the vaccine is too rushed, long term effects aren’t fully known etc, then you’d apply this thinking to the treatments used for covid too? These treatments have only been used in relation to covid for less than two years so all these anti-vax arguments hold true for covid treatments as well. Yet it seems many anti vaxxers have no qualms about seeking hospital treatment for covid if they get seriously sick.

So - if you refused the vaccine on the grounds mentioned above, and you have received, or would be willing to receive, hospital treatment for covid, I’m curious how you justify this logically?

@ginghamstarfish

I agree, should have to sign a form saying you won't be taking up a hospital bed if you refused the vaccine. But of course it won't happen in this country, and have read all the usual moans about obesity, alcohol etc, but at least those don't infect others. By the same logic those who moan and wail about 'vaccine passports' - should have to give up their actual passport, driving licence etc - those pieces of paper you have to show in order to be able to do a certain thing. Hypocritial thickos.

Well smokers affect others. Should smokers not get lung cancer treatment because they probably smoked Around others?

Also, I say this as a recovering alcoholic. My selfish actions shouldn't get me an ITU bed for liver failure over someone with Hepatitis.

Made my bed and I should lie in it and pay the price. Thankfully I got the help that was being offered and made an effort to get better.

@LlamaParma

But where does it end - should obese people who are overweight through over eating be denied treatment for the conditions that are exasperated due to that over eating? After all they don’t respect healthy eating advice so why should they accept the treatment?

See where it could lead to?…

I’m not sure that’s the best comparison. Smokers and fat generally know that what they’re doing is unhealthy. Anti vaxxers believe that what they’re doing is the most sensible. Right up until the point they do a massive U turn.

The op didn't say not to treat them at all or self inflicted or anything like that so not comparable to smoking
They asked why those that don't have a vaccine as its new would then accept the treatment which is new , even if used before its nee treatment for covid and I get what OP means
But guess peoples logic would be if you have it and are seriously ill you have nothing to loose anywsy

For those saying obesity isn't contagious, doesn't affect others etc.... It does impact others as obesity related issues put a huge strain on the NHS. In 2019/20 alone there were more than 1 million hospital admissions linked to obesity in England! If we are to keep locking down due to strain on the NHS then perhaps we should start looking at issues such as this too. Continuous boosters doesn't seem to be a great answer

That’s thankfully not how NHS healthcare works, never has and never should. It doesn’t matter what kind of person you’ve been, you’re entitled to equal care to the next person, if Adolf Hitler came into a NHS ward with a broken leg they’d fix it for him.

I’m not sure people realise the principles of this

It maybe is hypocritical, but I don't think they should be refused treatment, that's a slippery slope (I'm vaccinated).

It's quite simple really, they are sick, scared and want to get better.

I think it's obvious why the unvaccinated will take any treatment. If they're ending up in ICU then it means they're seriously ill, by which point they're probably scared shitless and will accept any treatment they're offered. Let's face it, nobody really wants to die when it comes down to it.

I wonder why if they've refused the vaccine because they don't trust it whether they'd trust the drugs/treatment in hospital. It's not like they'll be in a position to pick and choose what gets given to them there.

Regardless I'd never suggest refusing treatment to someone who has rejected vaccines.

How about fat people, alcoholics and smokers?

Would you deny treatment for lung cancer to a heavy smoker?

Would you have denied alcoholic Georgie Best a liver transplant?

Where does this end?

But realistically, there are very few admissions for Covid to hospital now as it is dying out.

Do you know anyone, anyone at all, who is in hospital with covid right now? (Scare stories in the Daily Mail don’t count).

People should be far more concerned about the 450 deaths everyday from cancer, according to Cancer Research.

I am aware that anyone who questions the Covid cult and government narrative on Mumsnet gets reported and am aware my days are numbered. Screenshot taken.

@Abigail12345654321 nope, in my experience once they were sick they wanted everything and anything. Not being able to breathe is a deeply frightening experience, people will say yes to almost anything in that situation.

I admit these were common or garden vaccine-hesitant patients rather than rabid antivaxxers, I assume the rabid people just died at home to avoid all the 5G in the hospital oxygen pipes.

@Changechangychange

“Nope, things like Ronapreve, Remdesivir etc are brand spanking new.m, far less tested than the vaccines.”

No this isn’t the case. Remdesivir is an old drug, been around since the mid 90’s. And Ronapreve is just two known drugs given together. These are not ‘novel’.

[quote Allmyarseandpeggymartin]@Abigail12345654321 It was a novel virus - the NHS has spent the last 2 years working out how to treat it[/quote]
What’s your point? It’s not clear from the above.

Do you know anyone, anyone at all, who is in hospital with covid right now?

Erm, yep? We have a couple of hundred in our hospital tonight. Opening an overspill ICU on Monday

[quote Allmyarseandpeggymartin]@Abigail12345654321 It was a novel virus - the NHS has spent the last 2 years working out how to treat it[/quote]
Long enough to work out treatment but not develop a vaccine. Apparently.

@Nidan2Sandan

God, this is so boring!!

There are about a million other threads attacking the unvaccinated, why dont you go and spew your vitriol on one of them instead.

This - it is getting a little bit embarassing now! Can't you all go and do a bit of Christmas shopping instead and give the hating/judging a rest for a little while?

[quote Changechangychange]@Abigail12345654321 nope, in my experience once they were sick they wanted everything and anything. Not being able to breathe is a deeply frightening experience, people will say yes to almost anything in that situation.

I admit these were common or garden vaccine-hesitant patients rather than rabid antivaxxers, I assume the rabid people just died at home to avoid all the 5G in the hospital oxygen pipes.[/quote]
I imagine the vast majority of the unvaccinated are the common or garden variety and rabid anti-vaxxers are rare. I don’t think they are cognitively impaired though; on balance, when well, their risk of becoming seriously ill with Covid is exceptionally low. The majority of the unvaccinated with either the asymptomatic or have mild symptoms. So it isn’t illogical or irrational to decline a novel vaccine when you think about it.

The tiny proportion who do become seriously unwell are weighing a very different risk/benefit ratio up when deciding whether to accept treatments.

Again, there is nothing wrong with that.

If people aren’t accepting vaccination, then scientists and medics need to work to produce evidence to persuade them. Or wait for data to accumulate. On balance, when that data emerges, it’s likely more people will elect not be be vaccinated year on year if they had mild symptoms when infected and so the unvaccinated will increase, not decrease - unless variants change the risk profile.

Just like any other vaccine.

Listen if you pay your tax and NI then you're entitled to NHS care.

What OP and anyone else thinks about this doesn't matter in the slightest because you don't make the rules.

How many bloody threads can there be on this?

To answer your question OP, rather than just bash the unvaccinated...

No one questions any drug prescribed by their doctor, generally, or wants to know the research etc. They won't when they need urgent care for covid.

They just seem to think they know so much about THIS vaccine. That they have the knowledge and ability to think they know better.

Ands that's what really pisses me off.

Ignorance and arrogance.

@Abigail12345654321

My point is the same as ops - Coronavirus is a relatively new virus, the NHS didn’t know how to treat it but has trailed different treatments and drugs over the last 2 years to save lives.

It’s ironic that anti vaxxers label the vaccines “experimental” - but when the chips are down and they are in a hospital bed gasping for breath they are willing to accept any treatment to get better.

HTH