Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

I think some of them genuinely (wrongly) believe that there are lots of fully vaccinated patients in ICU.

Stellf did you consider if it could have been worse without the vaccine?

What are the stats?

I keep seeing different ones and it’s unclear

@EmpressCixi you’re assuming that the unvaccinated have never been infected which also provides protection against future serious illness/hospitalisation (ONS and SA data irt omicron)

I am not willing to take the risk of covid vaccines until there has been a longer timescale, it's only been available to give since Dec 2020, that is one year. I always wanted to see a couple years worth of evidence and then get it.

And will you be requesting a similar amount of evidence for any necessary treatment, should you end up in hospital? People seem to become more trusting of medical expertise then...

@Lizlou85

The jab doesn't stop you transmitting or catching COVID any more or less than an unvaccinated person. I only got my first vaccine this month, shock horror, I can here the gasps across England as I type and I didn't contract COVID while I was un vaxed, I was careful and tested a few times a week.

Dear me. You are confused if you think it’s high transmission means a vaccine is less necessary. The fact that the Covid vaccine only slightly reduces the transmission of the virus between people is actually why it is extra important to get vaccinated.

Reducing transmission is necessary to reduce virus circulation, reach herd immunity and end this tragic pandemic. This study confirms that COVID-19 vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and also accelerates viral clearance in the context of the delta variant. However, this study unfortunately also highlights that the vaccine effect on reducing transmission is minimal in the context of delta variant circulation. These findings have immediate public health implications. Higher vaccination coverage rates need to be achieved because indirect protection from vaccinated to unvaccinated people remains suboptimal.
www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext

You did not catch Covid, but again you are confused as to why that is so. You have ascribed your Covid free status to being “careful” when it was simply unusually good luck. For your sake, I hope you continue to be lucky until you are fully vaccinated as your risk of hospitalisation and death is still much higher than it needs to be.

Overweight people too? They have a bigger risk of complications. How irresponsible. They have had ample time now to lose weight. Also the people with unhealthy lifestyles which contribute to poor immune systems, less likely to be able to fight off the virus and end up on hospital. Selfish.

@PaulGallico

Xenobitch - this thread isn't 'vile' - the discussion is simply not going in your preferred direction.

yes shes right its vile , full of judgemental wankers who are just as much a waste of space as these awful sefish anti vaxxers they are denouning

[quote bumbleymummy]@Bluntness100 your post is filled with nonsense and hatred. I suggest you look at the data from UKHSA and ICNARC.[/quote]
I fully understand the data, not liking what I am saying doesn’t mean you get to lash out and attack.

They are the problem. The people currently hospitalised are predominantly unvaccinated. There is no way round it. Those are the people who are risking overwhelming the nhs. It is not the vaccinated. The statistics speak for themselves.

Please take some time to educate yourself on the rates of vaccinated v unvaccinated currently in hospital

I disagree with what you're saying. There is no evidence that the vaccine stops you from spreading the virus. Yes, it might diminish your symptoms, but that will only make a difference if you're in the age range likely to need hospitalisation.

It's the vaccine boosters that are taking resources at the minute, not hospital treatment for the unvaccinated.

I am not willing to take the risk of covid vaccines until there has been a longer timescale, it's only been available to give since Dec 2020, that is one year. I always wanted to see a couple years worth of evidence and then get it.

Here's hoping you don't catch Covid in the meantime. We have a young friend who was very anti vax for similar reasons. She has a very different view now having been quite unwell with COVID and still has trouble breathing several months on and it's affecting her daily life as well as her sport.

[quote bumbleymummy]@EmpressCixi you’re assuming that the unvaccinated have never been infected which also provides protection against future serious illness/hospitalisation (ONS and SA data irt omicron)[/quote]
Oh yes, I did forget to mention that category of people who have had Covid. However, in the U.K. Covid survivors are still being asked to get vaccinated as well because the virus mutates quickly and the vaccine being an mRNA vaccine will boost immunity moreso than the natural immune response does. As seen in people catching Covid multiple times and often having worse symptoms during the later infections than when they first had it.

We don't have anywhere near 90% of the population vaccinated though.

Just under 47M have received a second dose of vaccine out of a uk population of 67M.

If you subtract a very generous 10M to account for children under 12 that as yet cannot be vaccinated, then we actually have 70% of the population vaccinated with two doses.

@ChequerBoard
Those figures do not differentiate between people who had COVID symptoms so severe that they were admitted to hospital and those who were admitted to hospital for another reason but tested positive with the routing screening. Huge difference.

"Here the actual data on hospitalisation:

900 people with coronavirus went into hospital on 13 December 2021.
Between 7 December 2021 and 13 December 2021, 6,056 went into hospital with coronavirus. This shows an increase of 8.1% compared to the previous 7 days.
There were 7,611 patients in hospital with coronavirus on 16 December 2021.
Some people in the hospital need to use a special device called a mechanical ventilator to help them breathe.
There were 875 coronavirus patients in hospital beds with a mechanical ventilator on 16 December 2021."

@Honeyhorse I've read about your phobia and I can completely understand why you are upset I've got my reasons for not being vaccinated also yet we get lumped in with the really crazy anti vaxxers as being thick , low intelligence and other nasty names and insults I stay off these threads as much possible now because of this I suggest you do the same xx

What if you have had covid, survived it, and have all the natural protection that comes with that? How are you a part of the problem then?

@Pickledlipstick

Overweight people too? They have a bigger risk of complications. How irresponsible. They have had ample time now to lose weight. Also the people with unhealthy lifestyles which contribute to poor immune systems, less likely to be able to fight off the virus and end up on hospital. Selfish.

Immunosuppressed people have over active immune systems, which need to be dampened to keep them well.

[quote Thingstodotoday]@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

“Bigbabs, whilst I'm thankful that you took the time and effort in that etymology lesson, I remain steadfast in my assertion that I think they are a virtue signalling exercise. Merry Christmas”

I see your understanding of “etymology” is about as accurate as your take on epidemiology then.[/quote]
I haven’t read the whole thread or even the whole of this exchange but I think this is my favourite comment so far 😂😂

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Why is it the unvaccinated's problem? People who are tripple jabbed can still catch, transmit and still have to isolate if they do get it? How is it the fault of the unvaccinated? Other countries that have forced the unvaccinated into lockdowns or said they cannot enter premises haven't stopped the spread then how can it be anything but a virus doing what viruses do?

Well said. There are a lot of anti-vacc threads today. Either the propaganda is working or these threads are partly created by the government's 'nudge' unit.

@chaosrabbitland

im vaccinated , but im so sick of this judgemental shit , just fuck off and do one with it

Why should people not be allowed to talk about it? Their decisions affect everyone, if they're so content and sure about their decision to remain unvaccinated then why can't they engage in discussion and reality about it without being offended or feeling like they're being judged?

@MissEyelesbarrow you tell yourself that if it makes you feel better.

The actual stats show that of those in hospital with Covid in London, 80-85% have Covid as their primary diagnosis.

For those who don’t believe vaccinations work - what about polio, measles, rubella etc. - do you think the polio epidemic went away by itself?

Immunosuppression is a reduction of the activation or efficacy of the immune system.

@Derbee

I think some of them genuinely (wrongly) believe that there are lots of fully vaccinated patients in ICU.

“ The percentage of patients admitted to critical care with confirmed COVID-19 that were unvaccinated decreased from 75% in May 2021 to 48% in November 2021 (Figure 27), consistent with the decreasing proportion of the general population who were unvaccinated. The characteristics of patients critically ill with confirmed COVID-19 by vaccination status are shown in Table 16.”

www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/e7be23e7-695f-ec11-9139-00505601089b

No I don’t think people who are unvaccinated do get that they are part of the problem at all.

I know of an anti vax family where the father had to go into ICU. It was very scary for them all but he pulled through. They still belittled people wearing masks and are unsupportive of healthcare workers. It’s unbelievable.