Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

@WanderingFruitWonderer

To be fair, only about 5000 Covid patients currently in hospital I believe. Still 5000 too many of course. But a tiny fraction of those in hospital overall. Heart disease, diabetes, strokes, other lifestyle-related conditions are placing greater strain on hospitals I think. As well as many years of lack of funds. Unvaccinated people come in many forms, and can't be easily labelled. The current witch-hunt against the unvaccinated is starting to deeply concern me. Targeting an entire group, rather than looking at each case individually is what happens when people are scared. History teaches us that. So, in a way it's inevitable, and in fact I understand it, but it's never OK.

Don't know where you got 5k from. A guess I suppose.

Facts are better. The simple summary attached below is a good way to assert yourself of the actual facts quickly and easily.

It's not the total number of patients in beds on any given day that you need to look at, it's the number flowing through the system week on week that all need assessment and treatment. That's running at about 900 a day, every day.

Here the actual data on hospitalisation:

900 people with coronavirus went into hospital on 13 December 2021.
Between 7 December 2021 and 13 December 2021, 6,056 went into hospital with coronavirus. This shows an increase of 8.1% compared to the previous 7 days.
There were 7,611 patients in hospital with coronavirus on 16 December 2021.
Some people in the hospital need to use a special device called a mechanical ventilator to help them breathe.
There were 875 coronavirus patients in hospital beds with a mechanical ventilator on 16 December 2021.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/easy_read

The views on this thread are really simplistic and driven by mainstream media. People unfortunately don't look beyond that and social media in order to form their opinions. Then they spew them out repeatedly

The irony of this is amazing and fairly typical of the people who are calling people sheep for believing in facts. The experts (proper ones, not the ones on YouTube sitting behind a paywall and spewing shite about a new world order) actually know what they’re talking about, just like the experts who predicted labour shortages and supply issues post Brexit. But arrogant nobheads thought they knew better than them too.
The critical thinkers here are the ones looking at evidence rather than conspiracy theories.

@Goodmorninglights

You’ll be waiting a long time for any anti-vaxxer to admit they are wrong. In my experience they are made up of people who have achieved very little in life, are dissatisfied, miserable and DESPERATE to finally be right about something and superior to those they like to call sheeple. Surely if they had some knowledge that us inferior folk don’t have they’d be bashing down doors, shouting on the streets to save humanity? Instead they are tucked up at home posting links to very questionable YouTube clips. Pathetic.

Spot on!

@LemonViolet

A vaccinated 60 yr old is still more at risk than an unvaccinated 20 year old. So no, that’s not what it’s doing at all. And the vaccinated 60 year old being allowed into a crowded venue with lots of other vaccinated people who haven’t had to test and could be infected, could end up in hospital too. They could, however, and I admit I don’t have data immediately to hand to back this up, but I bet that a 60 year old is much less statistically likely then a 20 year old to want to be at an event that requires a covid passport in the first place. So on a population level the passports should hopefully still have this effect. It’s all about reducing risk.

Re the “overweight/smokers are putting pressure on the NHS” argument…..yes they are, and that’s why there are massive public information campaigns on diet, nutrition and stopping smoking to aim to reduce those risk factors on a population level.

Cinemas/theatres/football games and in some parts of the U.K. bars & restaurants?

And that 20 year old is incredibly unlikely to end up in hospital at all so no, having vaccine passports to enter clubs is going ti do little to reduce hospitalisations and lots to destroy the already struggling industry.

" I admit I don’t have data immediately to hand to back this up, but I bet that a 60 year old is much less statistically likely then a 20 year old to want to be at an event that requires a covid passport in the first place."

Nightclub yes? Theatre, not so sure.

The jab doesn't stop you transmitting or catching COVID any more or less than an unvaccinated person. I only got my first vaccine this month, shock horror, I can here the gasps across England as I type and I didn't contract COVID while I was un vaxed, I was careful and tested a few times a week.

They aren’t part of the problem, op. They are the problem. And I excLude those who are medically exempt.

They are prolonging this. We are in this absolute mess because of the percentage of the population unvaccinated.it is overwhelmingly the unvaccinated in hospital. It is the unvaccinated who will overwhelm the nhs, who are causing us to have restrictions, fear, more lock downs.

If every person eligible was vaccinated and going for their booster. The risk to the nhs would be minimal and we could all go about our business as normal.

Yet here we are. Back in the shit. Because about six million people don’t want to be vaccinated and their risk of hospitalisation is so much higher they risk causing rhe nhs to collapse. And every one else, from general gp appts to cancer surgery is postponed because of it.

@Lizlou85

The jab doesn't stop you transmitting or catching COVID any more or less than an unvaccinated person. I only got my first vaccine this month, shock horror, I can here the gasps across England as I type and I didn't contract COVID while I was un vaxed, I was careful and tested a few times a week.

Please educate yourself.

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

I’m not vaccinated but I don’t really mix much with anyone apart from my partner and kids. I see friends for dog walks. I shop online and haven’t gone to any pubs or restaurants since before all this began. We had tickets booked for various things but haven’t gone. If I have to go anywhere I try to choose quieter times and wear a mask and keep my distance from everyone. I do LFTs regularly.

I think I’m much less of a risk that the people I know who are vaccinated but going out to crowded places.

I think you’re misunderstanding the situation. Yes you’re at less risk of catching Covid than your sociable vaccinated friends. But if they catch it, chances are they’ll be fine. If you catch it, you are more likely than them to be ill. You may need to be hospitalised. And you are therefore part of the problem that is overwhelming the NHS, and that is what is leading to us needing restrictions.

You’re not unreasonable, the unvaccinated might be a big problem. Here are some numbers about how big it is.

The U.K. has roughly 90% of all people over age 12 vaccinated. Some number in the 10% will be those younger teens who haven’t yet got an appointment or their school hasn’t yet got vaccines days done. Another number in the 10% will be various people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.

So less than 10% are refusing to be vaccinated for a disease with a hospitalisation rate of approximately 431 in 100,000 unvaccinated people while the fully vaccinated have a hospitalisation rate of 26 in 100,000 (www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-coronavirus-vaccines-hospital-cases-rates-unvaccinated).

So, after subtracting the 8.8m children under age 12 (www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/)
in the U.K., that leaves us with roughly 60m people (www.worldometers.info/world-population/uk-population/)

So, if 10% or 6m are for all reasons from medically necessary to personal choice unvaccinated, then that means an extra 405 hospitalisations per 100,000 people, or 243,000 unnecessary hospitalisations. Again some of this is unavoidable. I don’t know how many are unvaccinated due to lack of opportunity yet or medically justified reasons vs by choice.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

“Bigbabs, whilst I'm thankful that you took the time and effort in that etymology lesson, I remain steadfast in my assertion that I think they are a virtue signalling exercise. Merry Christmas”

I see your understanding of “etymology” is about as accurate as your take on epidemiology then.

But when all the evidence supports the science and you still choose to believe random youtubers who didn't even pass gcse science.... you're an idiot.

I completely agree!!

I don’t understand how these people don’t believe numerous professionals who have spent years training and gaining experience in their field of expertise, yet will believe a complete random person off the internet who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about and are just saying things to be controversial as they want the attention.

My cousin has had 2 vaccines and she’s seriously ill in bed with COVID right now, fighting for breath…….now……you tell me….do the vaccines work? No they obviously fucking don’t 🙄

[quote bumbleymummy]@mynameiscalypso that article is from November and was not correct - see the data from the ICNARC report.[/quote]
Sorry, I totally lost a month and was sure it was today!

First of all, I said this was anecdotal. I know no-one who was totally well, (mind you if you were asymptomatic you may not have tested anyway), but that was just me. It may reflect the older age group I mix with, although I do know some younger people who were very badly affected. The point is, it was a lottery before vaccines, and is far less so now.

@Lizlou85

The jab doesn't stop you transmitting or catching COVID any more or less than an unvaccinated person. I only got my first vaccine this month, shock horror, I can here the gasps across England as I type and I didn't contract COVID while I was un vaxed, I was careful and tested a few times a week.

This is repeated over and over again on MN but it is misinformation. Don't get the jab. But do not spread misinformation either.

Are we no longer allowed to question science or has it become a doctrine to blindly follow?

I think the key question to ask in response is: are you a scientist mounting a reasonably well informed challenge or are you being fed your questions by someone else?

Acting on evidenced based research from scientists (scientists aren't theologians or priests so they don't have doctrines) is common sense unless you have some real (non Facebook) research of your own to bring to the table.

You'll be blindly following something or you'll be taking sensible, well informed advice no matter what you do.

@Bluntness100 your post is filled with nonsense and hatred. I suggest you look at the data from UKHSA and ICNARC.

The jab doesn't stop you transmitting or catching COVID any more or less than an unvaccinated person.

FFS it’s statements like this that are part of the problem!

Someone posts a complete lie and then some idiot reads it and believes it and then tells someone else who tells someone else, until you have a large group of people believing the lie over the facts they hear everyday.

the jab doesn't stop you transmitting or catching COVID any more or less than an unvaccinated person.

That's simply not true. It sounds like you were unvaccinated on a false premise until recently.

You can't be careful enough with Omicron. Too transmissible.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Why is it the unvaccinated's problem? People who are tripple jabbed can still catch, transmit and still have to isolate if they do get it? How is it the fault of the unvaccinated? Other countries that have forced the unvaccinated into lockdowns or said they cannot enter premises haven't stopped the spread then how can it be anything but a virus doing what viruses do?

Because, @HeyDugeesCakeBadge the booster overwhelmingly prevents serious illness, so none of us fully vaccinated are going to end up in ICU taking up hospital beds.

And here’s the latest report from Imperial college London saying that protection from asymptomatic infection after two doses has dropped to 0-20% - so you can add double vaccinated people to your hate speech now - until their get their third dose of course.

www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-49-Omicron/

These threads always bring the antivaxers out, like flies to you know what.

im vaccinated , but im so sick of this judgemental shit , just fuck off and do one with it