Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

Why is it the unvaccinated's problem? People who are tripple jabbed can still catch, transmit and still have to isolate if they do get it? How is it the fault of the unvaccinated? Other countries that have forced the unvaccinated into lockdowns or said they cannot enter premises haven't stopped the spread then how can it be anything but a virus doing what viruses do

But stats and data also show that vaccinations have pushed the number in hospital and seriously ill right down in correlation to the amount of infection, hence they are doing their job which is to reduce the instance of serious illness resulting in hospitalisation and death. Although case numbers are an issue in regard to isolation forcing places to close etc, it'd be a lot worse with tonnes in hospital, plus if more were vaccinated and numbers in hospital were even lower, which they would be, community transmission wouldn't be such an issue.

Did you not see the photos of the anti-vaxxer brigade out in force in London yesterday, protesting? No social distancing or mask wearing. And a big group from what you could see. And that lot will then have been using public transport to get home. Shocking.

@milkyaqua

I am not willing to take the risk of covid vaccines until there has been a longer timescale, it's only been available to give since Dec 2020, that is one year. I always wanted to see a couple years worth of evidence and then get it.

And will you be requesting a similar amount of evidence for any necessary treatment, should you end up in hospital? People seem to become more trusting of medical expertise then...

Yes the evidence is other people.

You are wanting to wait until other people perhaps get a serious side effect. As if everyone was like you, unvaccinated, we’d never know.

All unvaccinated people are able to go about their daily lives, knowing that if they have an accident, they will get medical care, BECAUSE of vaccinated people. I would never want to mandate vaccination. HOwever I do think it’s about time unvaccinated people respect the vaccinated, as we are literally taking a hit for the team.

I think you’re misunderstanding the situation.
Yes you’re at less risk of catching Covid than your sociable vaccinated friends. But if they catch it, chances are they’ll be fine. If you catch it, you are more likely than them to be ill. You may need to be hospitalised. And you are therefore part of the problem that is overwhelming the NHS, and that is what is leading to us needing restrictions.

I’m not misunderstanding at all. I’m not vaccinated but I’m doing everything else I can to reduce risk to myself and others. The risk of me getting very ill is higher than if vaccinated but it’s still a very small risk as I’m healthy. It could happen but it’s unlikely. That’s what I have chosen. I haven’t caused any issue for the NHS so far. I could but I am unlikely to.

I also never don’t use the NHS for any healthcare for my family so no pressure is added from my family in other ways.

There are various things that can be done to reduce likelihood of becoming very ill with covid and needing hospital treatment. Vaccination is an important one. Being a healthy weight seems to be another. So in terms of pressure on the NHS, it’s odd that we only pick out being unvaccinated. If everyone was a healthy weight, that too would help.

If pressure on the NHS is the issue, I hope everyone is doing everything else to minimise their risk. In a country with so many fat people, I don’t think they are.

@Nsmum14

What if you have had covid, survived it, and have all the natural protection that comes with that? How are you a part of the problem then?

Becayse you have a short span of immunity, in varying degrees, that doesn’t cover for different strains.

For the record in 2021, I've had three Covid jabs and a 'flu shot.

Covid-19 is a wake-up call for he way we run our society. As one who remembers the terrifying times when The Lancet were publishing Andrew Wakefield's claims and the NHS rigidly stuck to MMR or No MMR with no option for separate vaccinations, I was very lucky that a GP friend had a baby the same age - I took comfort from his informed decision.

Ignoring the anti-vaxxers who cannot be reached, the genuinely hesitant have been treated very badly. There has been no attempt to engage or persuade them. A friend who lives and works alone told me that the '15 million jabs to freedom' would be replaced by another panic, 'Freedom Day' came and went and he told me that two jabs wouldn't be enough, two months ago he told me there would be another panic along in time for Christmas.

His pessimism and cynicism have been far more accurate than Neil "isolating while shagging someone else's wife" Ferguson and Matt "I prefer another husband's bubble" Hancock. That's where the danger lies - when youtube and facebook cranks make more sense than respected commentators we're all in trouble.

@Nsmum14

What if you have had covid, survived it, and have all the natural protection that comes with that? How are you a part of the problem then?

Because you can catch it again, particularly it seems with Omicron?

I dont think they are necessarily part of the problem.

It depends who you are. If you are 50/ 60/70 then yes you are a problem. If you are 80/90 and have signed a DNR then no you are not a problem. Likewise younger people unlikely to end up in ICU I dont see a problem.

I am actually more concerned with the guidelines for vaccinated people; and I consider that a way larger problem.

I work in a care home and obviously we are all vaxxed due to the law. I have numerous colleagues who are being forced to come to work whilst they have family members they live with who are testing positive. This to me is a big concern! Far more so than someone young and healthy unvaccinated!

Defensive little buggers, aren't they.

A lot of,people I know that haven’t had the vaccine are a lot more careful than people that have had it. Unvaccinated they wear masks, don’t mix much and avoid getting near people, sanitise the shopping etc. people that have been vaccinated tend to go out as normal, don’t wear masks and mix a lot with friends and go to events. Who is doing the most spreading? The ones unvaccinated who take more precautions or the vaccinated who think they are protected and can do what they like?

Someone linked to an article on crony beliefs on the feminism board. I think that’s at okay here too. Basically, we maintain beliefs that don’t make sense because they serve us in some other way, usually as a form of tribal signaling that brings social benefits.

[quote ChequerBoard]@MissEyelesbarrow you tell yourself that if it makes you feel better.

The actual stats show that of those in hospital with Covid in London, 80-85% have Covid as their primary diagnosis.[/quote]
The FT reported yesterday that the majority of infections were incidental -picked up when admitted for something else.

@Dodie66

A lot of,people I know that haven’t had the vaccine are a lot more careful than people that have had it. Unvaccinated they wear masks, don’t mix much and avoid getting near people, sanitise the shopping etc. people that have been vaccinated tend to go out as normal, don’t wear masks and mix a lot with friends and go to events. Who is doing the most spreading? The ones unvaccinated who take more precautions or the vaccinated who think they are protected and can do what they like?

Yeah sure

At work…

Please give your feedback to my situation and what you would honestly do.

Covid in March 2020, fairly mild at the time, 6-8 weeks later developed terrifying symptoms, had every blood test going, a head/brain mri, heart test, neck X-ray. It was a petrifying time where I literally didn’t know what was happening to my body or mind. My heart rate was 130 on testing, adrenaline surged through my body, I had nightmares and woke from my sleep gasping for air, oxygen levels were lower.
Fast forward to now, much better than back then, but still not well and can’t see myself ever being back to my old self pre covid.
I’ve developed mcas, have regular relapses where I feel full of aches, flu, tinnitus, nausea. My periods are almost non existent, my body becomes full of inflammation.
I’m on daily medication and currently awaiting another eco for my heart as I suffer from heart pain and chest pain on a regular basis.
For all the *Normal people not suffering from
Long covid, the decision to vaccinate is largely pretty simple I imagine, I would’ve been vaccinated a long time ago, had I been you.
People not suffering from long covid won’t likely have much information about being ill about this and the millions of people suffering similar on forums etc, where we all share information as we have zero help from doctors. Some of them have become worse with the vaccine, a few better (not many) and some with no change.
With inflammation issues in my body, reactions to simple foods, now no alcohol or coffee or I suffer severe side effects…choosing whether or not to have the vaccine is a MASSIVE decision.
To add insult to injury with some saying I’m selfish, is this fair.
I’m very confused, conflicted and scared what to do.
On the one hand I’m told I should be protected as I’ve had covid and on the other not. I have no idea what to do. I *have to think of myself in this situation, I have a toddler daughter to care for and am basically just trying to survive each day at this point.

Am I still being selfish and should be *Forced to have vaccinations and now all three of them??

What would you do?

@Nsmum14 DS had Covid in August and now has what looks v much like Omicron. I am not a big believer in natural immunity or LFTs any more. Luckily it appears to be mild.

What if you have had covid, survived it, and have all the natural protection that comes with that? How are you a part of the problem then?

You do have some immunity to it but it’s not as strong as the vaccinations.

Obviously if someone hasn’t had covid yet it is better to gain immunity from the vaccinations as they are weaker doses given over a longer period of time, so you’re less likely to get severely ill than of you caught covid itself.

@TerraNovaTwo

I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but can you not understand that these people are genuinely frightened? Are we no longer allowed to question science or has it become a doctrine to blindly follow?

And since when do we follow advice, laws and orders from unelected officials (Chris Whitty - who is not the only expert in his field) ?

Unless you've spent your working life becoming an expert on the subject I think you need to button up and roll up your sleeve

its not talking about it though , the only reason these threads are started im sure is so a bunch of smug vaccinated people can all get together and type about how selfish and awful the unvacinnated are not to mention thick and stupid and its all their fault omicron is sweeping the country , they fully deserve to not be treated if they get covid , wouldnt it be great if they were locked in their homes , , and blah blah blah , my daughter is 13 and wont have the vaccine which is her choice and fine with me , im not forcing her , iv never done a lateral flow test ever , and i wont wear a mask and havent complied with lockdowns , not hard really as im an essential worker anyway , if people want to judge me they can , i dont care what randoms think , and it doesnt offend whatsoever , its pitiful what a bunch of mindless idiots that a lot of people have become though , mindlessly swallowing the goverment propganda , boris johnson and his faithfull scientists plus sage would be rubbing their hands together at a lot of these comments

The unvaccinated I know are in their 50s
They go out , a few don't wear masks in shops etc and many are covid deniers.
They won't have this vaccine and probably never will.

@Dodie66

A lot of,people I know that haven’t had the vaccine are a lot more careful than people that have had it. Unvaccinated they wear masks, don’t mix much and avoid getting near people, sanitise the shopping etc. people that have been vaccinated tend to go out as normal, don’t wear masks and mix a lot with friends and go to events. Who is doing the most spreading? The ones unvaccinated who take more precautions or the vaccinated who think they are protected and can do what they like?

Some of the anti-vaccers I know are LESS careful, still touching people rather thank keeping a distance, for example. They obviously are not very scared of Covid if they think they're at greater risk of side effects than of severe Covid (not necessarily a wrong calculation for young people, but wrong for those a bit older).

@Inthelivingyears if I were you I'd get vaccinated.

@inthelivingyears in your situation, I would get triple vaxxed so I never had to get Covid so severely again. I would also ask my consultant what to do.

His pessimism and cynicism have been far more accurate than Neil "isolating while shagging someone else's wife" Ferguson and Matt "I prefer another husband's bubble" Hancock. That's where the danger lies - when youtube and facebook cranks make more sense than respected commentators we're all in trouble.

Ha! This made me laugh. But you’ve an excellent point. In England this is especially so. In Scotland the leadership has been more trustworthy. Same in Germany, Italy, France, Spain even after their initial shambles. Ireland has very high rates of vaccination as there is a lot of trust in authority. But trust can also come from being consistent, and not shagging other people’s wives in a lockdown.

@Dodie66

A lot of,people I know that haven’t had the vaccine are a lot more careful than people that have had it. Unvaccinated they wear masks, don’t mix much and avoid getting near people, sanitise the shopping etc. people that have been vaccinated tend to go out as normal, don’t wear masks and mix a lot with friends and go to events. Who is doing the most spreading? The ones unvaccinated who take more precautions or the vaccinated who think they are protected and can do what they like?

I think we all know that on a population level they’re less likely to be cautious.